M10-P versus M240 - first impressions

[charlie9089]

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Hi, I am an M240 owner and have just bought an M10-P - thought it could be interesting to share my first impressions for anyone contemplating a similar move. 

 

Shutter - a lot quieter, not much different in volume from an M3, but a very different sound. In many situations the shutter will be inaudible to the subject. The shutter is not silent however. If you need silent get a Sony. Quieter shutter is a big plus in my view, discreet for portraiture and melds well with the discreet nature of the camera. 

 

Viewfinder - very susceptible to greasy fingers, need to keep clean to get a sharp view. Still prefer the viewfinder of the M3 to the modern digitals, glass/focus patch is clearer and more contrasty

 

Size - much easier to hold, you don't need a grip unless you have a large lens (unlike M240 where grip significantly improved handling for any lens)

 

Looks - killer in Black, really suits the logo-less style - am swapping my mint Silver Summilux 35mm and 50mm lenses for the same lenses in black. 

 

EVF - only used it to check focus for the M240 and to chimp in bright sunlight but genuinely useful with the M10-P - improved in all respects

 

ISO dial - saw it as a gimmick, but surprisingly useful.

 

ISO performance - You get serious noise above 6400, a stop more than the M240.

 

Touchscreen - once you have it you don't want to lose it, fast and intuitive review of photos

 

Wifi - struggled to get it to work and then suddenly worked perfectly, useful, does everything you would expect - tether, remote trigger etc. I will use this a lot.

 

Level gauge - my Canon DSLR with a wide choice of focal lengths and tilt-shift lens is a much better tool for architectural/landscape photography, You can always finesse in Lightroom anyway.

 

Lens choice - Purely a subjective thing I know, but I find myself reaching for a 35mm more than a 50mm with the  M10-P  - was the opposite with the M240.

 

What I would have liked

 

- Continuous and Self-Timer on the on/off switch (as with M240)

 

- Longer battery life (battery in the optional accessory grip?) With heavy use of the EVF to review images and also going through the menus to set up the camera, mine lasted just over 100 shots. M240 battery life was way better than this. Have bought a second battery. No doubt in future batteries will be released with longer life.

 

- Deleting photos - No "Delete" button - 3 clicks to delete a picture, not a deal-breaker but inconvenient

 

- Optional Leica Handgrip has ugly thick useless base (I prefer to use a grip with heavier lenses like the 90mm APO). I have bought an RRS plate and grip so the grip at least fulfils some kind of useful function.

 

- Leica provides nice leather strap but too short (110cm) to wear cross-body - would have preferred 125cm and have bought a Rock & Roll 125cm strap in a similar style

 

- Lose the additional framelines, not required when you have the frameline selector

 

- Viewfinder - would be great if you could switch the OVF to 0.9/1x when using 50mm and longer lenses....

 

- Still 24 megapixels, have 30MP in my Canon 5D, I notice and value the extra quality when printing large or cropping. I guess Leica worried about the oft-quoted rangefinder-focusing "limitations" but in my experience the focus wide open (if correctly adjusted) is extremely accurate to within millimetres and the superb Leica lenses could easily deliver more detail. Missed opportunity, particularly when Sony launched a 42MP camera of the same size years ago

 

Bottom line

Significant upgrade in terms of usability. Image quality surprisingly similar so the M240 so if budget is a consideration, a secondhand M240 is a worthy (and cheaper) alternative. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by charlie9089

[wattsy]

- Lose the silly additional framelines, particularly when you have the frameline selector...firmware update please Leica. Electronic framelines still don't look as as distinct as the old film cameras. Would be a nice feature to re-introduce optical/mechanical framelines as with the old film cameras.

 

 

 

The framelines are optical/mechanical. As with the M 240, the only difference with the "old film cameras" is that the M10 framelines are lit internally via LEDs.

Edited August 31, 2018 by wattsy

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[SiOnara]

Shutter - a lot quieter, not much different in volume from an M3, but a very different sound. In many situations the shutter will be inaudible to the subject. The shutter is not silent however. If you need silent get a Sony. Quieter shutter is a big plus in my view, discreet for portraiture and melds well with the discreet nature of the camera.

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Strange as my M10P is really quiet next to my M3. They are very similar with the lens unmounted but with a lens mounted the M10P is a lot quieter.

[Vroon]

Visited red dot in London. Saw both cameras. Quite surprised- M10 is heavier. Not a huge difference between the cameras TBH. Salesperson (hugely affected and into own image but helpful) said 240 had more of a yellow tint out of the camera. Processing needed. Said image of M10 closer to M9 “Etchachrome”. Unlikely ? Or real ?

[Herr Barnack]

Hi, I am an M240 owner and have just bought an M10-P - thought it could be interesting to share my first impressions for anyone contemplating a similar move. 

 

...

 

ISO performance - You get serious noise above 6400, a stop more than the M240.

 

...

 

Bottom line

Significant upgrade in terms of usability. Image quality surprisingly similar so the M240 so if budget is a consideration, a secondhand M240 is a worthy (and cheaper) alternative. 

 

If ISO 6400 is about it in terms of usable ISO, what is the purpose of having ISO up to 50,000?  Is that just "keeping up with the Joneses" (Nikon, Canon, Fuji and Sony)? 

 

As far as ISO 3200 being usable in the M240, maybe so for screen viewing but not so for making fine prints at 10x15 inches or larger - at least in my experience.

 

The Bottom line of "significant upgrade in terms of usability" is worth something, given that ISO improvement seems to be incremental and IQ is virtually the same as the M240 cameras. 

 

One of the things I like best about my M-P 240 is its prodigious battery life, which the M10 apparently lacks.

 

I guess we have to wait for the M11 or even the M12 if we want improvements in leaps and bounds.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[Vroon]

The next very expensive upgrade will not be far away.

[Tinker55]

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Thanks for sharing this; very useful!

I'm still in the process of getting used to my (new to me) M240 and love what I get from that camera; in a way I'm glad to hear that the picture quality is not significantly better, probably saves me from an expensive investment in the short term... 

[charlie9089]

In response to Herr Barnack, I agree that the battery life is a major disadvantage. With heavy EVF use, the battery on the M10-P is good for only around 100 shots although you will get many more if you use the OVF only. In contrast, M240 battery life is great. I never bothered buying a second battery for my M240.

 

With respect to max ISO, it's a meaningless number for marketing, not just for Leica but Canon and others as well. The important ISO is when in your subjective viewpoint quality becomes unacceptable.  I have 10 x 15 inch prints printed by a fine art printer, hung on my wall at home which were shot at 3200 on the M240. Obviously the quality is not as good as 200 but most people say what nice photos they are (unprompted feedback, honest!). So 3200 on the M240 is definitely OK but the upper limit in my experience.

 

Leica for a relatively small (compared to Sony, Canon etc) company are launching a lot of new products which means that they are stretched very thin. Although I love my M10-P, I think it could be improved and hope that Leica will focus more on the M series in future. The silver lining to this cloud is that a used M240 is less than half the price of a new M10 but so much more than half the camera in terms of functionality. If anyone is interested, I actually have my M240 up for sale here.

Edited September 11, 2018 by charlie9089

[Tragg]

"Viewfinder - very susceptible to greasy fingers, need to keep clean to get a sharp view. Still prefer the viewfinder of the M3 to the modern digitals, glass/focus patch is clearer and more contrasty"

 

I love my M10 but  - aside from the absence of 35mm framelines - the M3 was PERFECT! Having said that, the M2 with button rewind is my nomination for the prettiest Leica ever. OK, back on topic...

 

 

Edited September 11, 2018 by Tragg