ajayk Posted August 25, 2018 Share #101  Posted August 25, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Someone who was once involved with Leica told me that the delay in launching new models by Leica is mainly due to two facts:  1. Leica is facing severe financial crisis and due to above reason they have a problem in starting a new production line very often unlike Japs. That’s why 24MP sensor even in new launches; I find this a bit credulous as sensor technology has really advanced with BSI sensors now ruling the roost with higher megapixels but Leica is not able to use them. This is really a catch22 situation for Leica as volumes can go up only when the prices come down and higher volumes are necessary to really keep innovating. On other hand Leica has always been a premium line and marks up higher profits on smaller volumes to keep itself going.  2. Due to above reason they allow lot of time to their dealers to liquidate the existing stocks before launching a new one.  I don’t know whether this is true but I would like Leica to keep running and keep selling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 Hi ajayk, Take a look here Nikon Z6, Z7 and Leica SL ..... (merged). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted August 25, 2018 Share #102 Â Posted August 25, 2018 It was true in 2000-2006, but I don't think it is true at all at present. Leica is backed by substantial investors and has been making solid profits for a number of years, 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted August 25, 2018 Share #103  Posted August 25, 2018 Someone who was once involved with Leica told me that the delay in launching new models by Leica is mainly due to two facts:  1. Leica is facing severe financial crisis and due to above reason they have a problem in starting a new production line very often unlike Japs. That’s why 24MP sensor even in new launches; I find this a bit credulous as sensor technology has really advanced with BSI sensors now ruling the roost with higher megapixels but Leica is not able to use them. This is really a catch22 situation for Leica as volumes can go up only when the prices come down and higher volumes are necessary to really keep innovating. On other hand Leica has always been a premium line and marks up higher profits on smaller volumes to keep itself going.  2. Due to above reason they allow lot of time to their dealers to liquidate the existing stocks before launching a new one.  I don’t know whether this is true but I would like Leica to keep running and keep selling.   It was true in 2000-2006, but I don't think it is true at all at present. Leica is backed by substantial investors and has been making solid profits for a number of years,    Yes … unless the 'someone who was once involved … ' is still involved, the 'someone' does not have have any credibility.  dunk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted August 25, 2018 Share #104 Â Posted August 25, 2018 My point is that video and still will converge in the near future, especially when video output can be raw (8K?) as you say. I would like Leica to lead rather than follow. I agree with you, with the caveat that Leica was leading when the SL came out. They dropped the ball by not supporting ACES workflow for L-log (something which probably only matters to professional videographers, but it's kept Leica from being considered a serious video solution). My hope is that they will lead again when the next SL comes out. What they need to do is fairly clear, from my distant viewpoint: support ACES, provide a way to record RAW video (hopefully in-camera), fix some minor usability issues (especially the microphone input), and improve video performance overall (faster frame rates, UHD using the full sensor width as an option). Â I really don't think that Leica are far from the market leaders right now. Some of the changes will require new hardware, but they could support ACES right now if they wanted. This is especially odd since they have released some excellent cine lenses. The M 0.8 lenses are almost price-competitive for smaller operators, and their more expensive lenses have been featured in major cinema releases. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 25, 2018 Share #105 Â Posted August 25, 2018 I agree with you, with the caveat that Leica was leading when the SL came out. They dropped the ball by not supporting ACES workflow for L-log (something which probably only matters to professional videographers, but it's kept Leica from being considered a serious video solution). My hope is that they will lead again when the next SL comes out. What they need to do is fairly clear, from my distant viewpoint: support ACES, provide a way to record RAW video (hopefully in-camera), fix some minor usability issues (especially the microphone input), and improve video performance overall (faster frame rates, UHD using the full sensor width as an option). Â I really don't think that Leica are far from the market leaders right now. Some of the changes will require new hardware, but they could support ACES right now if they wanted. This is especially odd since they have released some excellent cine lenses. The M 0.8 lenses are almost price-competitive for smaller operators, and their more expensive lenses have been featured in major cinema releases. You come in from the video side and I come from the still photography side, yet our interests run parallel. Leica should consider this aspect. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxo Posted August 25, 2018 Share #106 Â Posted August 25, 2018 The Leica SL was the first SLR camera to offer 10-bit log recording to an external recorder. Not Sony, not Panasonic, definitely not Nikon. Leica isn't behind, they established the benchmark. Nikon is just now catching-up. . The SL has no significant market share. Thats why even dpreview does not mention it when comparing the new Nikon with other mirrorless cameras. Leica does not generate enough clicks to finance dpreview. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxo Posted August 25, 2018 Share #107 Â Posted August 25, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) You come in from the video side and I come from the still photography side, yet our interests run parallel. Leica should consider this aspect. When I need more than 12Pic/s I already used Cinema 4K at 24fps. Unfortunately no full frame and no DNG. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 25, 2018 Share #108 Â Posted August 25, 2018 Yes. And my family. For decades. I see. Mr. K. then... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted August 25, 2018 Share #109 Â Posted August 25, 2018 Leica does not generate enough clicks to finance dpreview. DPReview is owned by Amazon. People don't buy Leicas from Amazon. The cheapest SL on Amazon Canada right now is $2,000 more than the dealer price! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted August 25, 2018 Share #110 Â Posted August 25, 2018 DPReview is owned by Amazon. People don't buy Leicas from Amazon. The cheapest SL on Amazon Canada right now is $2,000 more than the dealer price! Not true! I saw a really nice M3 on sale at Wholefoods. :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 26, 2018 Share #111 Â Posted August 26, 2018 (edited) Makes sense that Amazon will try to cross sell to Whole Foods customers Leica gear. Similar target group. See here: https://www.infoscout.co/retailer/whole_foods Edited August 26, 2018 by Chaemono 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieri Posted August 26, 2018 Share #112 Â Posted August 26, 2018 The SL has no significant market share. Thats why even dpreview does not mention it when comparing the new Nikon with other mirrorless cameras. Leica does not generate enough clicks to finance dpreview. Â Â If DPReview was a serious website, caring about information and journalism, they would not omit the SL from a mirrorless comparison - market share or not. Too bad they aren't. Â Best regards, Â Vieri 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw Posted August 26, 2018 Share #113  Posted August 26, 2018 DPReview is owned by Amazon. People don't buy Leicas from Amazon. The cheapest SL on Amazon Canada right now is $2,000 more than the dealer price!   Why wouldn't I buy Leicas from Amazon? I've bought cameras, lenses and accessories from Amazon before. Why not? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxo Posted August 26, 2018 Share #114 Â Posted August 26, 2018 DPReview is owned by Amazon. People don't buy Leicas from Amazon. The cheapest SL on Amazon Canada right now is $2,000 more than the dealer price! I didn't know that Amazon owns dpreview. The conflict of interest is evident. Â A serious review website should publish its financel structure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satijntje Posted August 26, 2018 Share #115 Â Posted August 26, 2018 Where is a reliable source that dpreview is owned by amazon? Or is it only a rumour? John Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 26, 2018 Share #116 Â Posted August 26, 2018 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Photography_Review 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 26, 2018 Share #117 Â Posted August 26, 2018 Is this reliable enough? It took two seconds to google. https://m.dpreview.com/articles/1690663587/amazonacquiresdpreview Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 26, 2018 Share #118  Posted August 26, 2018 I suspect it’s also not in Leica’s interest now that their gear is featured prominently in dpreview articles. Because of Amazon’s 1-Click ordering option they can’t make the 75 Noctilux fast enough. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted August 26, 2018 Share #119  Posted August 26, 2018 I suspect it’s also not in Leica’s interest now that their gear is featured prominently in dpreview articles. Because of Amazon’s 1-Click ordering option they can’t make the 75 Noctilux fast enough. Exactly, why sell to impatient customers with money to burn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonescapes Posted August 26, 2018 Share #120 Â Posted August 26, 2018 I think the coverage of Leicas has been fair. When Leica releases something with appeal beyond its dedicated following, the review outlets have historically responded very quickly. Think back to the days of the M9 when it was Leica rather than a major manufacturer who proved that full frame sensors could fit in small bodies (the major manufacturers had claimed it was an impossible engineering problem to solve). All the major outlets covered the M series extensively after that, even though it was very, very far outside the budget most of their readers/viewers could afford. Â The problem now is the market has changed. All the stuff (specs-wise, if not in terms of mojo) Leica can give, other manufacturers give in greater quantity at much more modest prices. There are more products now which are roughly in Leica's ballpark for the non-connoiseur, and the review outlets have to prioritize their reviews. It's only logical that Leica goes to the end of the line. Â I am confident that if Leica finds an opportunity to innovate on behalf of the industry again, the reviews will come. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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