Nikon Z6, Z7 and Leica SL ..... (merged)

[mmradman]

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The D850 has a great sensor. The 50 f/1.8 is not a great lens. The 50 f/1.8 FG is simply not intended to be and is not one of Nikon’s best lenses. Comparing to their better lenses shows this. Adding the sensor to the equation to compare to the SL is irrelevant to this point.

 

Put an Otus on the D850 and you’ll see much better results.

 

The Z7 will show the same. The 50FG will look worse than the 50ZS. The Otus will likely outperform both.

I am not arguing that Nikkor F 50mm f1.8 is a great lens, however it is not lemon price considered. 

For sure, there are better Nikkors than modest 50f1.8, I am merely pointing out that it works well with good sensor, plus it cost pennies.   

[LD_50]

I don’t consider cost as relevant to the actual performance of a lens. Performance is performance. That Nikkor is not very good in my experience compared to other F mount lenses. I enjoyed the 58 f/1.4 quite a bit, though it’s more about a specific look than resolution.

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[Jon Warwick]

no, it's exactly the same size than Summicron-SL 90 and 75 and will be about 700 gr - I don't think this is tiny for 35mm/2,0

 

Here some pics from Leica's website showing the upcoming lens

As an aside, the Nikon Z 35mm f 1.8 I was trying today is 76mm maximum diameter x 86.5mm distance from camera lens mount flange.

 

This compares to 73mm x 102mm for the SL 75mm Summicron, which I believe (as mentioned by mefiafotografie) is the same for the other SL Summicron primes.

 

In short, very much in the same ballpark size as the Nikon Z .....

 

The Leica SL 1.4 is massive and heavy compared to all in comparison, but it is a Summilux ....

 

The difference was the body size of the Nikon Z7, which “felt” a lot smaller than the SL. The whole package of the Nikon is a lot lighter too, given body and lens individually are lighter.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Jon Warwick

[pgk]

Every manufacturer had M style controls and ergonomics until that didn’t work for photographers. The interfaces cluttered over time as more features were added (and wanted by most photographers).

 

The thing is ..... that the basics haven't changed. Photography is still all about selecting the correct point of focus, appropriate aperture and shutter speed (and viable ISO (ish)). Photographers forget this and amazingly it still works fine. I find that the controls all too often get in the way because they are designed to exploit every possible innovation and permutation instead of actually aiding the photographer. I can't remember the last time I shot aperture priority with an M. Light rarely changes fast and if it does then rotating a dial is easy. I'd happily have a dSLR with old fashioned features and just one or two well thought out 'aids' if that is, those 'aids' were effectively implemented. After over a decade of using Canon dSLRs the majority of their 'features' remain unused - they are specification and little more.

Edited August 31, 2018 by pgk

[ajayk]

Well, it will already differ with touch screen access to most controls.

 

I can just imagine Leica user reaction if the SL had a smaller body with smaller lens options, high MP, tilt screen, IBIS, etc, still with weather sealing (including new lenses), fast AF tracking and quality EVF. Of course specs vs execution are different matters... and lenses are key. I’ll check it out before making any firm judgment.

 

Jeff

If SL will have all this it will cost $15000

[ajayk]

I don't think Leica has a choice but to up the ante on the SL2, otherwise they will quickly become outpaced. Don't expect Canon to be resting on its laurels.....

Canon is about to announce its mirror less camera. Battle rages on!!

[ajayk]

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There was a long thread on M forum recently about resultant effect of lens and sensor quality combined. As ever opinion remains divided but lets just say that overall image quality is dependant on the quality of lens and quality of sensor combined [1/R = 1/RL + 1/RS].

 

Last time i tried Nikon D850 with dirt cheap Nikkor 50mm f1.8 at max aperture i was blown away with the sharpness and quality of the detail at maximum magnification - aka pixel peep. If New S lens is even better optically then F mount predecessor than we have interesting times ahead.

 

What about Leica SL2? It is not due until next year earliest, S008 is overdue assuming Leica is still in medium format business. Maybe at Photokina collector special edition is unveiled, sporting new-old 24Mp sensor and re-marketed quieter shutter, and a top plate script instead of the red dot.

I was informed by leica representative that SL successsor is going to come out in 2020 only.

[ajayk]

Let me also add my 2 bits, SL is still a great camera. I think 24 MP is more than enough for all kinds of works except probably bill boards. Problems of very high resolutions is storage and manipulation in LR. Workflow slows down.That is the reason most brands have stuck to 24 MP as part of their collection including Sony which has A7III and A9, both with 24 MP resolution. Nikon Z6 will also be out with 24 MP. Canon persists with 5D IV with 30 MP and Nikon with D750. Fuji X is all with similar resolutions.

 

What Leica needs to do is to just add some features like IBIS, a better AF and low light performance. That way price will also not go up much higher and it will be a great camera to use. For those looking at a higher resolution they can have a separate SL line with higher resolution.

Edited September 1, 2018 by ajayk

[ajayk]

Latest is new model is Canon R with 30 MP sensor, mirror less with EV -6 low bright AF with some superb lenses on offerings, much better than Nikon Z lenses. Get more details on web. If this news is true we will see huge Nikon Z cancellations.

[thighslapper]

The thing is ..... that the basics haven't changed. Photography is still all about selecting the correct point of focus, appropriate aperture and shutter speed (and viable ISO (ish)). Photographers forget this and amazingly it still works fine. I find that the controls all too often get in the way because they are designed to exploit every possible innovation and permutation instead of actually aiding the photographer. I can't remember the last time I shot aperture priority with an M. Light rarely changes fast and if it does then rotating a dial is easy. I'd happily have a dSLR with old fashioned features and just one or two well thought out 'aids' if that is, those 'aids' were effectively implemented. After over a decade of using Canon dSLRs the majority of their 'features' remain unused - they are specification and little more.

 Ditto.

 

I spent most of my initial time with both SL and CL customising buttons/functions/menus to get rid of stuff I never use, leaving just a few profiles with the basics.

 

I can't recall the last time I delved into the menus on the SL or CL.

 

Generations have managed  with just control of aperture, focus, ISO and shutter speed so anything else is just a welcome/unwelcome extra .... depending on your point of view .... 

Edited September 1, 2018 by thighslapper

[ajayk]

https://www.cnet.com/tags/canon/#ftag=CAD-00-10aag7d

[ajayk]

https://petapixel.com/2018/08/31/canon-r-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-and-7-lenses-coming-sep-5th/

[thighslapper]

Looks like the market is about to be flooded with FF mirrorless cameras and lenses ...... all of which I suspect are going to be remarkably similar in fundamental specifications ..... 

[LD_50]

Let me also add my 2 bits, SL is still a great camera. I think 24 MP is more than enough for all kinds of works except probably bill boards. Problems of very high resolutions is storage and manipulation in LR. Workflow slows down.That is the reason most brands have stuck to 24 MP as part of their collection including Sony which has A7III and A9, both with 24 MP resolution. Nikon Z6 will also be out with 24 MP. Canon persists with 5D IV with 30 MP and Nikon with D750. Fuji X is all with similar resolutions.

 

What Leica needs to do is to just add some features like IBIS, a better AF and low light performance. That way price will also not go up much higher and it will be a great camera to use. For those looking at a higher resolution they can have a separate SL line with higher resolution.

Storage and LR workflow have little or nothing to do with companies sticking to 24 MP sensors.

 

The lower resolution cameras are typically geared toward speed so on-camera processing is the bottleneck. The D5, 1DX II, and A9 are all high speed cameras that need to be able to move a lot of data very quickly.

[ajayk]

Storage and LR workflow have little or nothing to do with companies sticking to 24 MP sensors.

 

The lower resolution cameras are typically geared toward speed so on-camera processing is the bottleneck. The D5, 1DX II, and A9 are all high speed cameras that need to be able to move a lot of data very quickly.

I wonder where you got that from? Resolution does cause problem in workflows due to high file sizes. Try work on a file from a MF or a Sony A7R3 vs a file from a 24 MP .... computers also have limitations in terms of RAM and if you don’t have a SSD ...

[LD_50]

I wonder where you got that from? Resolution does cause problem in workflows due to high file sizes. Try work on a file from a MF or a Sony A7R3 vs a file from a 24 MP .... computers also have limitations in terms of RAM and if you don’t have a SSD ...

I have worked on files from D800 (36 MP), Leica S007 (37 MP) and D850 (45 MP) in LR6 and now Capture One. Most of my shots have been D700, D4, D4s (all low res) and now RX1, MP240, and SL (all 24 MP)

 

The workflow may slow down if you have a computer that is not suitable but again, this is not why the camera companies are using lower resolution sensors.

 

The on-camera bottleneck is the reason for the high, end high speed cameras being limited. The lower end cameras are gravitating to using the same sensors from Sony because high volume and good yield rate results in lower prices. The high resolution sensors cost more so won’t be in the high volume and low cost cameras for a few years.

[sdw]

I wonder where you got that from? Resolution does cause problem in workflows due to high file sizes. Try work on a file from a MF or a Sony A7R3 vs a file from a 24 MP .... computers also have limitations in terms of RAM and if you don’t have a SSD ...

 

 

That may be true, but to insinuate that this is why camera makers limit sensors to 24MP is simply inaccurate. Next year, computer hardware is faster. Do you reckon we'll keep upping the megapixel count as computers improve?

 

The 1D-X has a 20MP sensor, not for the editing workflow, but for fast sensor readout. The best selling prosumer camera of the last few years is the A7 R series — 40+ MP. Nobody really complains about the editing workflow. 

[Chaemono]

Looks like the market is about to be flooded with FF mirrorless cameras and lenses ...... all of which I suspect are going to be remarkably similar in fundamental specifications .....

I’ll eventually shoot them all side by side (when every body is equiped with a 40+ MPx FF BSI sensor) and see which one is the best.

[BernardC]

24MP is enough for event work. It certainly saves time in processing when you have thousands of files, and clients rarely need (or want) more. The reality is that your pictures will be viewed at low resolutions on a phone or laptop. Even for prints, 24MP is fine up-to "sofa size."

 

That's not to say that there is no use for higher resolutions. There is, but it's only beneficial to a smaller market. Frankly, if you need to print huge highly detailed files, you may as well use medium format. It will make your life easier.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[jaapv]

Latest is new model is Canon R with 30 MP sensor, mirror less with EV -6 low bright AF with some superb lenses on offerings, much better than Nikon Z lenses. Get more details on web. If this news is true we will see huge Nikon Z cancellations.

Wouldn't that depend on the system users are locked into by their lenses? I don't know about you, but I tend to look at lenses first and cameras second. Features are mostly irrelevant, nobody produces a bad sensor, it all comes down to the lens -and, admittedly, - ergonomics.