M10 M-D

[Kwesi]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

image transfer. primarily for instagram while on location

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[IkarusJohn]

My thoughts are: while the current MD-262 and M60 are purist cameras for the advanced photographer, M10-D should have some innovation to attract current users to upgrade.

My suggestion is -

leave ISO wheel on the back.

Allow for M10 visoflex viewing only.

No image playback/review through visoflex.

Also allow visoflex to configure wifi. can be done using current thumbwheel and shutter press.

Where current ISO dial is have Nothing. Just a dropped shoulder like the MD262

 

This way you begin a recognizable iconic line of the digital M for the Ultimate purist who must work in a digital world.

 

Thoughts?

My expectation is the starting point will be the M10 as is - ISO dial where the rewind knob is, Visoflex 020 (with GPS?), WiFi and a blank back (guess work on my part). I don’t think Leica will depart from that base functionality.

 

That will mean, when using the optical rangefinder, the “purist” vision is retained.

 

With the Viso 020, you get the benefit of being able to use wider than 28mm and longer than 90mm with ease. Hopefully, you will also get focus magnification and the ability to move the focal point and spot metering. Sadly, that probably means retaining the D pad (which is a shame). WiFi will enable making menu settings and remote triggering and downloading images (for those who like that sort of thing). Posting on social media would be pretty straightforward.

 

For myself, I’d just use the ovf. We will find out shortly.

Edited September 9, 2018 by IkarusJohn

[Fedro]

Agree with John

 

they will likely use parts from the existing line, would be cheaper for sure

 

Would be great to have the dial at the back, but doubt it is going to happen

[a.noctilux]

John, your idea of magnification/move in the field in Visoflex 020 on M10 (M-D) is very nice.

 

Possibility without adding the direction pad .

The moving function may add a button (why not keeping the focus front button of M10):

- moving left or right with the wheel only

- keeping the front button pressed then up and down with the wheel

a bit clumsy but why not

[IkarusJohn]

John, your idea of magnification/move in the field in Visoflex 020 on M10 (M-D) is very nice.

 

Possibility without adding the direction pad .

The moving function may add a button (why not keeping the focus front button of M10):

- moving left or right with the wheel only

- keeping the front button pressed then up and down with the wheel

a bit clumsy but why not

 

Not sure it will happen, but I did ask!

[totocaster]

Nice to see other people's perspective on M-D philosophy. Clearly, a majority doesn't share the same reasons I love my M-D. I find that fascinating! Thanks all for an interesting discussion.

 

Here my perspective on M-D and its future.

 

I think M-D is all about handling and simplicity, thus if it loses read ISO dial that would be a huge stepback in my book. I'd be also pretty upset to see new M-D with Visoflex, Wi-Fi (which is very hacky on any camera), or god forbid—touch interface of any sort. The thing that it has almost no electronic interface at all, except for ancient 7 segment display in rangefinder and the single red LED, also makes M-D age really well. It has nothing that will make it "feel old". I can say that about very few digital things in my life and that makes me like M-D even more.

 

As for "M-D is an advanced camera" argument, I would disagree. M-D is as advanced as M3, which is not at all. I would, however, call M-D a conservative camera, definitely.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for progress and innovation. Regular digital M line (or maybe even rumored C-M line) is exactly where this should happen—touch screens, hybrid viewfinder, etc.

[a.noctilux]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Nice to see other people's perspective on M-D philosophy. Clearly, a majority doesn't share the same reasons I love my M-D. I find that fascinating! Thanks all for an interesting discussion.

 

Here my perspective on M-D and its future.

 

I think M-D is all about handling and simplicity, thus if it loses read ISO dial that would be a huge stepback in my book. I'd be also pretty upset to see new M-D with Visoflex, Wi-Fi (which is very hacky on any camera), or god forbid—touch interface of any sort. The thing that it has almost no electronic interface at all, except for ancient 7 segment display in rangefinder and the single red LED, also makes M-D age really well. It has nothing that will make it "feel old". I can say that about very few digital things in my life and that makes me like M-D even more.

 

As for "M-D is an advanced camera" argument, I would disagree. M-D is as advanced as M3, which is not at all. I would, however, call M-D a conservative camera, definitely.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for progress and innovation. Regular digital M line (or maybe even rumored C-M line) is exactly where this should happen—touch screens, hybrid viewfinder, etc.

 

 

I love my M-D (typ 262) too as it is now (I think not replacing it with the future M10-D, if it comes one day).

 

 

If the new comer can use the Visoflex as add on (not attached or hybrid finder), it would be tempting for me.

Not for everyday use, but when in need ( so add the EVF) to use UWA lenses or long focus (or why not "macro" use), or when focus with RF is not practical with some situations.

 

Assuming that the newcomer uses more reliable system than M10 + Visoflex 020 : some troubles related here https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/288018-visoflex-works-intermittently/

 

...

And I'd wait for Monochrom variety anyway of the new (to come) M-D.

Edited September 17, 2018 by a.noctilux

[totocaster]

If the new comer can use the Visoflex as add on (not attached or hybrid finder), it would be tempting for me.

 

Out of curiosity, what do you find easier using Visoflex? Focusing, framing or adjusting exposure?

 

I personally can't decide when the subject is in focus on EVF. Much prefer rangefinder for focusing, feels far more precise.

Edited September 17, 2018 by totocaster

[a.noctilux]

Out of curiosity, what do you find easier using Visoflex? Focusing or framing?

 

I personally can't decide when the subject is in focus on EVF. Much prefer rangefinder for focusing, feels far more precise.

 

Depend on the lens and distance, I rely on VF in most of time: the M10 OVF is the best of my Ms.

 

When I need Visoflex (for M10) is when I use UWA (like 12/15mm) for framing, if accuracy is required.

I do use also some of my Leica R lenses ( and other SLR lenses) to 560mm, even some zooms .

For those, focus and framing with EVF is a must.

Only time parallax (or time lag) can be ennoying.

 

So if I can I use OVF .

I use an M as an M !

[IkarusJohn]

It’s an interesting point, Arnaud, reminiscent of whether or not the M10 should have video; if you don’t want the Visoflex 020 and WiFi on the M-D, don’t use it and you won’t know it’s there. And, why spoil a camera by not providing what others want etc etc

 

Like you, I will use my M-D in its naked, natural form with the OVF. But, there may be occasions where I will use the Visoflex I already own. Rare occasions, but I will use it from time to time, I think (macro?). Similarly, WiFi will enable remote triggering of the shutter, focus and framing checking and menu setting. Again, rare, but useful.

 

90% of the time, neither function would get any use. Why include them? Because they’re already part of the M10.

[totocaster]

I agree with all of you above, that including those feature in M-D is fair and reasonable. My point is that M-D follows some sort of philosophy in my brain, and fitting it with additional features will slowly make it [almost] same as other Ms.

 

90% of the time, neither function would get any use. Why include them? Because they’re already part of the M10.

 

Exactly, there is always M10

 

Here's an analogy I'm thinking — For me M-D is M-A of digital, if M-A had a light meter it would be totally reasonable, but that's not the point of that model, because there is a film MP already with that feature-set.

Edited September 18, 2018 by totocaster

[Fedro]

I think that an a D based on the M10 (P?) with a better VF, better high ISO and a quieter shutter would be an improvement on the current M-D

 

WIFI can be turned off I am sure or not used at least and you don't have to buy a Visoflex if you don't want one

 

If you have 20 cameras, then, sure, a pure D is a nice piece in the collection

 

If you have fewer, or only one, having a chance to check stuff when needed is a plus at least IMHO. 

 

BTW the sensor on the 10 has a better Auto WB, the M-D can be off when shot indoors (at least in my experience), having a better WB or being able to check  is good

[totocaster]

I think that an a D based on the M10 (P?) with a better VF, better high ISO and a quieter shutter would be an improvement on the current M-D

 

Absolutely, I'd take M10-P viewfinder, silent shutter and thickness (or rather lack of it) in a heartbeat. 

[beckzito]

I am still saving money for this “new” M10 M-D something…whatever it may going to call so I am sitting here quietly for the announcement.

Anyway, having played with a 262 M-D for just a few days(that’s when I decided I wanted one of these babies)i expect this new model to improve on:

 

-better ovf

-less bulky body(a la M10)

-quieter shutter

 

And that’s all, if Leica begins to introduce wi-fi and other features, it defeats my purpose of having a classic and timeless Leica camera.

Edited September 19, 2018 by beckzito

[Linford]

Out of curiosity, what do you find easier using Visoflex? Focusing, framing or adjusting exposure?

 

I personally can't decide when the subject is in focus on EVF. Much prefer rangefinder for focusing, feels far more precise.

 

It may seem odd, but I find the primary reason I choose the EVF on my and M10 (it was the same with my 240 and 246) is available light. The EVF allows me to focus more accurately in low-light situations without a doubt. Perhaps, my eyes are not what they used to be.  I find focusing in general to be much quicker with the OVF. Cheers--lt

[totocaster]

It may seem odd, but I find the primary reason I choose the EVF on my and M10 (it was the same with my 240 and 246) is available light. The EVF allows me to focus more accurately in low-light situations without a doubt. Perhaps, my eyes are not what they used to be.  I find focusing in general to be much quicker with the OVF. Cheers--lt

 

I had the similar experience a couple of months ago—I was not confident using a rangefinder and was nudging focus ring back and forth far more frequently than before.

 

Later, I checked my eyes (not related to the camera, just general check-up) and yup—I sort of need glasses. So I bought -0.5 diopter for an M, thinking what -0.5 won't make any difference and I couldn't be more wrong. I'm far more confident with focus using diopter now.

[Jeff S]

M10 D on the way?

https://leicarumors.com/2018/10/15/leica-m10-d-camera-rumored-to-be-announced-in-a-few-months.aspx/

Jeff

[Fedro]

what I had heard was announcement by the end of this year

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[HELM]

I like the idea of not having to protect a screen - Leave ISO knob alone. Perfect the Leica Fotos app so that if you really need to look at a histogram or review a shot, you can with Apple or Android phone. The processing power in modern phones dwarfs what Leica could buy and install in the camera for a processor. I always travel with my phone so one screen to protect is enough

 

No screen = longer battery life. Now Leica needs to bring up to modern standards their wifi implementation. Speed and battery usage for wifi needs to dramatically improve, it's a solved problem. Modern is circa 2017 for Leica 🙂

Edited October 15, 2018 by HELM
added final thought

[pico]

4 hours ago, HELM said:

No screen = longer battery life. 🙂

I don't think so. We can turn it off for the M10.