Lens Recommendation

[fotografr]

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I have the L to M adapter and I'm trying to decide between the 18mm Elmarit TL (27mm equiv.) and the 28mm Elmarit M. The primary use would be on my CL. The price difference is about $1000, but my main concern is performance. Does anyone have experience with both lenses on the CL.

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[ramarren]

I don't have either of those, but they're a hugely different pair of focal lengths on the CL format.

 

Despite not having one of the Elmarit-M 28 lenses, well, I haven't found a Leica lens yet that didn't perform at least well on the CL body. 28mm on the CL is a nice "wide-normal" FL equivalent about 43mm. I use the Elmarit-R 28/2.8 as my normal lens and it performs beautifully.

 

The Elmarit-TL 18mm seems a lovely, tiny lens and seems to perform beautifully. I may yet buy one of them because it would be nice to have something smaller and lighter than the Elmarit-R 19mm f/2.8.

[thighslapper]

I don't ....... but the 18mm has optical compromises to allow it to be a compact pancake configuration, whilst the 28/2.8 performs as well as any of the best Leica W/A lenses ...... and you will lose the potential mirrorless peripheral issues of FF by using it on the CL. The most recent iteration is even better. Bear in mind the 'actual' focal lengths will be very different. Have you confused which focal length you are multiplying by 1.5 in trying to find equivalence ? 

Edited July 28, 2018 by thighslapper

[ramarren]

I don't ....... but the 18mm has optical compromises to allow it to be a compact pancake configuration, whilst the 28/2.8 performs as well as any of the best Leica W/A lenses ...... and you will lose the potential mirrorless peripheral issues of FF by using it on the CL. The most recent iteration is even better. Bear in mind the 'actual' focal lengths will be very different. Have you confused which focal length you are multiplying by 1.5 in trying to find equivalence ? 

 

 

So ... Do you see problems with Elmarit-TL 18mm photographs? If you don't, why even mention that the design "has compromises"? What does it matter if the photos it makes are excellent? 

[Bill W]

So ... Do you see problems with Elmarit-TL 18mm photographs? If you don't, why even mention that the design "has compromises"? What does it matter if the photos it makes are excellent? 

I have read also that the 18 had compromises in order to deign it as small as it is. But I have yet to really read what that means in terms of how the actual photos turn out. I have not read where anyone is really disappointed with it. Obviously it is not a really fast lens. I do not have one but I do have the 18-56 and it is superb at 18 as far as I can tell. I do have the 23 and it is a superb little lens. You might consider it instead of the 28 FWIW. 

[ramarren]

I have read also that the 18 had compromises in order to deign it as small as it is. But I have yet to really read what that means in terms of how the actual photos turn out. I have not read where anyone is really disappointed with it. Obviously it is not a really fast lens. I do not have one but I do have the 18-56 and it is superb at 18 as far as I can tell. I do have the 23 and it is a superb little lens. You might consider it instead of the 28 FWIW. 

 

 

That's my point. ALL lenses have compromises in their design, at some point or another. Leica's lens designers have made a science out of utilizing the various compromises of lens design to construct lenses which image in a satisfying and pleasing way. So saying that the TL18mm has compromises in design to achieve its size has no useful meaning unless some observable way in which those compromises degrade the quality of the images it makes can be illustrated. 

 

f/2.8 is not an ultra fast lens, but it's not a slow lens. People today have become so accustomed to bandying about f/0.95, f/1.0, f/1.2, etc as "fast lenses" that they have lost sight of the fact that a fast lens at one time was any lens with a maximum aperture of greater than f/5.6. A fast lens, at one time, meant that you could use a fast shutter speed enabling you to hand hold the camera in decent light, not that you could image a black sheep on a coal field on a moonless night ...

[fotografr]

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Have you confused which focal length you are multiplying by 1.5 in trying to find equivalence ?

Thank you. No,I haven't confused them. I do have the 18-56 which gives me as much wide angle as I desire. I'd probably keep the 28mm (42mm) on the camera as a carry everywhere combo.

[fotografr]

I do have the 23 and it is a superb little lens. You might consider it instead of the 28 FWIW.

 

I did briefly consider the 23. I'll take a closer look at it. Thanks!

[jaapv]

If you are not particularly interested in a wide aperture, the Voigtländer Color Skopar 25 is minuscule and of very high quality.

[Bill W]

I did briefly consider the 23. I'll take a closer look at it. Thanks!

 

I guess I am getting old and lazy but I really like a native lens with auto focus. For a small walk around lens, the 23 is great. IMO

[fotografr]

If you are not particularly interested in a wide aperture, the Voigtländer Color Skopar 25 is minuscule and of very high quality.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've just read some specs on the lens and one thing I noted is that there is no anti-reflective coating. Is there a flare issue with it?

[jaapv]

Never had any specific flare issues. My example is multi-coated. I can't imagine any uncoated one.

[Joeri]

I have both the 28 Elmarit and 18 Elmarit. They're completely different lenses of course. Focal length is completely different and the 18 has auto focus, whereas the 28 doesn't. The 18 Elmarit turns your CL or T into a very light and compact camera with good and reliable auto focus. 

I've shot assignments where I used the 28. I haven't shot commercial projects with the 18. Does that mean the 18 is not good enough? Of course not. I'm quite sure that a proper shot with the 18 (maybe stopped down a bit) can be printed on very large formats, but if I'd get an assignment where I knew I had to get one image with the best possible quality, I'd probably both use either my M or SL and another lens. 

 

Having said that, a few months ago we made a short trip to Gran Canaria to get ready for the wedding season. I brought an M with a couple of lenses and the T with just the 18. I never touched the M or the other lenses. The 18 is just good fun, very convenient and excellent quality.

Here's the 18: http://joerivanderkloet.com/leica-elmarit-tl-182-8-apsh-review/

And here's the 28: http://joerivanderkloet.com/leica-elmarit-m-282-8-asph-review/

[ramarren]

Never had any specific flare issues. My example is multi-coated. I can't imagine any uncoated one.

 

 

Same here. I've had all the modern Cosina/Voigtländer Color Skopar lenses (21/4, 24/4, 28/3.5, 35/2.5, and 50/2.5) ... they're all completely modern construction with multi-coated elements. The 28 and 50 are my two favorites and the ones I've kept. They are very flare resistant, actually. 

[fotografr]

http://joerivanderkloet.com/leica-elmarit-tl-182-8-apsh-review/

And here's the 28: http://joerivanderkloet.com/leica-elmarit-m-282-8-asph-review/

Superb reviews, Joeri. Thank you for linking them. I've got several options to consider for what will be the lens I carry everywhere on my CL. I can work with a focal length anywhere from 27mm to 42mm, my primary consideration being size and weight. For versatility, I'm probably better off on the wider end. The 18 and 23 both appeal most to me, but the size, price and performance of the 25 skopar is hard to ignore. I very much appreciate all of the input. This forum is great for that. Edited July 29, 2018 by fotografr

[fotografr]

Never had any specific flare issues. My example is multi-coated. I can't imagine any uncoated one.

 

Jaap--Here's where I saw the specs that indicate no anti-reflective coating. Still, I've read numerous reviews now that say the lens handles flare quite well.

Edited July 29, 2018 by fotografr

[ramarren]

Jaap--Here's where I saw the specs that indicate no anti-reflective coating. Still, I've read numerous reviews now that say the lens handles flare quite well.

 

 

That page has incorrect information. I had that exact lens, and it was certainly equipped with anti-reflection coatings. 

 

 

G

—

"Just because you saw it on the internet doesn't mean it's true." 

Edited July 29, 2018 by ramarren

[fotografr]

That page has incorrect information. I had that exact lens, and it was certainly equipped with anti-reflection coatings.

 

 

G

—

"Just because you saw it on the internet doesn't mean it's true."

What? Incorrect information on the internet? How can that be?

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[Herr Barnack]

I have the L to M adapter and I'm trying to decide between the 18mm Elmarit TL (27mm equiv.) and the 28mm Elmarit M. The primary use would be on my CL. The price difference is about $1000, but my main concern is performance. Does anyone have experience with both lenses on the CL.

I can't really comment on the 18 Elmarit since I do not own one, but based on the images I have seen posted here that were made with it, image quality does not appear to be even the slightest of problems, "compromises" in design or not.  As someone said above, all lenses have compromises; lens designers must give in order to get.  A tolerable compromise on attribute "X" produces an improvement in attribute "Y."

 

The 28/2.8 Elmarit would be the full frame equivalent of 42mm on the CL; an odd focal length, but it might be an interesting perspective, being halfway between the 35mm and the 50mm.  As far as image quality, build quality and sturdiness/reliability, the newest version of the 28mm Elmarit is beyond reproach; my 28 Elmarit has taken up more or less perpetual residence on my M4-P, which is more or less perpetually loaded with Tri-X.

 

The 28 Elmarit is not blindingly fast, but with the higher ISO capabilities of cameras like the CL, M10 and MM246, f/2.8 (IMHO) is becoming more of a non-factor in terms of lens speed.  If you need more shallow DOF than the Elmarit can produce, there are other alternatives in the 28mm focal length.

 

The moral of the Story?  You can't go wrong with the newest version of the 28mm Elmarit, no matter which camera body you mount it on.  It is small, light, sturdy as hell, affordable and offers stunning image quality.  And it comes with that new delicious metal lens hood! 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[dfdann]

I have both the mentioned lens. The 28 mm Elmaret has lived on my M8 for the past 10 years. Both work excellent on

my CL. The 28 mm M lens is easier to focus on CL than on my M7 or M8. The 18 mm L makes a great compact

package for traveling light.

Cheers, Dan