Leica S3

[AlanD]

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I think the Panasonic S1R will beat the Leica SL with the same glass.

 

What would make S Mount exciting is to price the body low and expand the S lenses with advanced AF capabilities (faster motors. Dual focus). Razor blade model. Increase prices on the lenses, decrease price on the bodies. Old s owners rewarded. New S owners pay the same but how the pricing is split is different.

 

IBIS and OIS and shutter stock improvements are game changing. If you look at Fuji APS-C line you can see how the XH1 is sharper than the XT2/XT3 line at Dpreview. Leica could enhance the damping for the mirror and shutter in the S3. IBIS would be wonderful.

 

Upgrade the viewfinder. It’s already great. Now that mirrorless MF is growing, let’s double down on better magnification and 100% coverage.

 

Upgrade to at least a few AF points. Even if just a grid of 9. Or instead of a cross type, do a double cross type.

 

Extension tubes and teleconverters.

[erlingmm]

I think the Panasonic S1R will beat the Leica SL with the same glass.

 

What would make S Mount exciting is to price the body low and expand the S lenses with advanced AF capabilities (faster motors. Dual focus). Razor blade model. Increase prices on the lenses, decrease price on the bodies. Old s owners rewarded. New S owners pay the same but how the pricing is split is different.

 

IBIS and OIS and shutter stock improvements are game changing. If you look at Fuji APS-C line you can see how the XH1 is sharper than the XT2/XT3 line at Dpreview. Leica could enhance the damping for the mirror and shutter in the S3. IBIS would be wonderful.

 

Upgrade the viewfinder. It’s already great. Now that mirrorless MF is growing, let’s double down on better magnification and 100% coverage.

 

Upgrade to at least a few AF points. Even if just a grid of 9. Or instead of a cross type, do a double cross type.

 

Extension tubes and teleconverters.

 

 

Many interesting ideas.

 

I do not think it is realistic to increase the prices of the lenses, but I agree that a lower body price would open the S world for more people, I think there are still bargains to be made on used lenses.

 

I have learnt to live with 1 AF point. I never use AF anyway, but manual, with AF pushing the joystick on the back, followed by optional manual adjustment.

 

Not sure I understand what you mean by upgrading the viewfinder, it is optical, Maybe more functions could be added to live view.

 

IBIS (and sensor cleaning) would be great.

 

Personally, I miss a wide angle tilt shift, which would give better solutions for architectural photography, and bring the S closer to what technical cameras can do.

 

And a 2x for tele...

Edited September 29, 2018 by erlingmm

[AlanD]

“Not sure I understand what you mean by upgrading the viewfinder, it is optical, Maybe more functions could be added to live view.“

 

The old OM-1 film cameras had a spectacular viewfinder with a 0.92x magnification.

 

They could increase the magnification of the optics in the viewfinder and get 100% coverage. This would require a larger prism. Then there are optics that focus the view. They would have to optimize these. It is similar to how a binocular works. You have the primary lens and then the eyepiece.

[xiaubauu2009]

Well. I know people who constantly upgrade their Phase Ones, just for more megapixels. What kind of updates/changes would excite you?

 

 

calling a mere mega pixel count upgrade of the PhaseOne nowadays is not very accurate. They are changing to a BSI sensor and that is quite a change in performance, GFX IBIS is game changing, Electronic Shutter is a good option, Better AF system that you can actually see and feel (not just pure speed, but intelligent)... the list goes on and on... which S3 doesn't seem to be even touching beside the pixel count... but then again, I might be wrong....

[mgrayson3]

The number of unfounded assumptions in this thread is amazing. They fall into two categories: 1) Anything Leica announces will be as bad and as expensive as it can possibly be subject to its specifications. And 2) Anything anyone else announces will work perfectly, be a huge improvement, and will bury Leica once and for all.

 

I'm a big fan of using an actually shipping camera and seeing if I like its handling and output. But that's me.

Edited September 30, 2018 by mgrayson3

[frame-it]

not just this thread..the SL thread and digital threads too

The number of unfounded assumptions in this thread is amazing. They fall into two categories: 1) Anything Leica announces will be as bad and as expensive as it can possibly be subject to its specifications. And 2) Anything anyone else announces will work perfectly, be a huge improvement, and will bury Leica once and for all.

I'm a big fan of using an actually shipping camera and seeing if I like its handling and output. But that's me. :rolleyes:

[helged]

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not just this thread..the SL thread and digital threads too

 

 

...or the entire forum - except for the ever-rolling and overwhelmingly positive "I like film..." thread (now at page 2694). Go figure... 

[kparseg]

The number of unfounded assumptions in this thread is amazing. They fall into two categories: 1) Anything Leica announces will be as bad and as expensive as it can possibly be subject to its specifications. And 2) Anything anyone else announces will work perfectly, be a huge improvement, and will bury Leica once and for all.

 

I'm a big fan of using an actually shipping camera and seeing if I like its handling and output. But that's me. :rolleyes:

There is a third category: people who are not fanboys and who have not stock in any brand; who see advantages and disadvantages of every system and are not afraid to critically assess the gear that costs dozens of thousands of USD; those who try to question bold statements other members make, such as brand X has the best lenses/focus/ISO (you name it) without making efforts to support their statements. 

[erlingmm]

Well, some people have at least touched it:

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/27/17904802/leica-s3-medium-format-dslr-hands-on-photokina-2018

 

https://www.shutterbug.com/content/we-shot-new-64mp-leica-s3-medium-format-camera-its-thing-beauty-incredibly-pricey

 

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/reviews/hands-on-review-leica-s3

 

Of course, no real evaluation of the sensor yet, which is really the key issue.

[erlingmm]

“Not sure I understand what you mean by upgrading the viewfinder, it is optical, Maybe more functions could be added to live view.“

 

The old OM-1 film cameras had a spectacular viewfinder with a 0.92x magnification.

 

They could increase the magnification of the optics in the viewfinder and get 100% coverage. This would require a larger prism. Then there are optics that focus the view. They would have to optimize these. It is similar to how a binocular works. You have the primary lens and then the eyepiece.

 

 

The S has 0,87 magnification and 98% coverage. Not so bad?

Here is a full list of other cameras, mostly FF or less, except the Pentax 645 which also has 98% coverage:

https://www.neocamera.com/article/viewfinder_sizes

Edited September 30, 2018 by erlingmm

[leicapages]

For what it is worth, a well-known German Leica dealer whom I visited on Saturday informed that the only real difference between the S 007 and the S3 is actually the higher-resolution sensor.

 

Let’s see if the final price will reflect that. Perhaps some other, smaller issues are being worked on as well between now and delivery to the market. I can think of some. Time will tell.

[AlanD]

The S has 0,87 magnification and 98% coverage. Not so bad?

Here is a full list of other cameras, mostly FF or less, except the Pentax 645 which also has 98% coverage:

https://www.neocamera.com/article/viewfinder_sizes

I never said it was bad. Just that there is room for improvement. Theoretically, they could do something that was another 10% larger.

 

Why? Because it is a Leica.

[Guest]

I had a S006, I upgraded it to a S007...............S007 was and still is an amazing camera especially with the S120 lens (my favorioute  lens). I then bought the H6D100c and now the S007 is pretty much redundant and spends 99% of its time in a dry cabinet. I did take it on safari with me but only as a backup to the H6D........I used it a few times but really dint need it.

 

More megapixel is better IMOHO

 

Neil

 

PS you will also find that many folks on here spout off about this and that without owning or using any of it

 

 

[Distagon]

full frame Sigma Foveon sensor with L mount... that's my holy grail. Nothing beats the color from a true-ish RGB sensor...

Though past users have reprted that post-processing Foveon is an unmitigated nightmare...

[Distagon]

I think the Panasonic S1R will beat the Leica SL with the same glass.

Although that assumes the S1R has access to the same level of in-camera lens corrections as a Leica body, with lenses characterised at different focal lengths and apertures.

We are yet to find out exactly how much information the L-mount consortium are sharing about their respective lens products: whether Leica glass will be as well corrected on a Panasonic body, or whether manufacturer-native glass will always be better corrected.

[xiaubauu2009]

Though past users have reprted that post-processing Foveon is an unmitigated nightmare...

Yes. But if you understand how to use it. It is way better and easier than any Leica files I have tried. It’s usually 2-5 steps process in SPP to make the image delicious. Can’t say that when I am with Leica S or M files.

[Photon42]

I think the Panasonic S1R will beat the Leica SL with the same glass.

 

 

 

Maybe not with certain M lenses, benefiting from a specific sensor design.

[AlanD]

Maybe not with certain M lenses, benefiting from a specific sensor design.

Agree. Could be like the A7r2/3.

 

The L Mount Alliance only ensures compatibility between mechanical and electrical protocol for Mount but may not include other details like microlenses or cover glass thickness. Sigma has gone on record to say that each member has a confidential roadmap that they do not discuss with each other.

 

The S to SL adapter doesn’t work on the CL or TL so it is possible that it will not work on the Panasonic or Sigma. That said, having Foveon on board gives L Mount users a choice of a second “digital film emulsion” the way that Hasselblad once has CMOS and CCD options side by side and as long as Panasonic and Leica use different sensors (which they may not), there will be inherent color differences in the way that the color filter array is structured as well as RAW files are processed.

[Neimad]

Many interesting ideas.

 

I do not think it is realistic to increase the prices of the lenses, but I agree that a lower body price would open the S world for more people, I think there are still bargains to be made on used lenses.

 

I have learnt to live with 1 AF point. I never use AF anyway, but manual, with AF pushing the joystick on the back, followed by optional manual adjustment.

 

Not sure I understand what you mean by upgrading the viewfinder, it is optical, Maybe more functions could be added to live view.

 

IBIS (and sensor cleaning) would be great.

 

Personally, I miss a wide angle tilt shift, which would give better solutions for architectural photography, and bring the S closer to what technical cameras can do.

 

And a 2x for tele...

 

 

Agree on the IBIS and also on the wide angle tilt shift. A wide angle tilt shift will make the S a great camera for architecture. 

Multi AF points will be nice to have but I can live with the current center one AF point.

In regards to the viewfinder, please do not touch anything about it. It's perfect and this is a big differentiator especially compared to Mirrorless MF like the X1D and GFX.

About the vibration, I believe that Leica had done some improvements on the mirror from the S2 to the S007. Not sure about the S3.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Neimad

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[Neimad]

Though past users have reprted that post-processing Foveon is an unmitigated nightmare...

 

 

I can confirm this. Painful slow (even with a very powerful computer). There is an updated firmware for the DP and SD Quattro that allows to use the DNG format. But you may lose some of the Foveon advantages by using it. Not sure about it. I've not tested it yet.