jaapv Posted May 29, 2018 Share #61 Posted May 29, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't see much build quality differences between CL and SL, except for weathersealing. If the new camera is at the same level as the Q and CL, there will be very few complaints. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Leica CM / ML?/ New Leica Mirrorless Announcement. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dkCambridgeshire Posted May 29, 2018 Share #62 Posted May 29, 2018 All these speculations! Such speculations always occur followed by disappointments when the actual products are announced … products which have been in development for many, many months and which nobody can change at the last minute. Reminds me of gamblers convincing themselves that a certain horse will definitely win several weeks prior to the actual race … but what an anti-climax and bad feelings when the crystal ball is proved wrong. Surely it's better to be patient and just wait for the official announcements rather than build up false hopes. Que sera, sera. dunk 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 29, 2018 Share #63 Posted May 29, 2018 So no more comments about new Leica products on the LUF? Rather boring no? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojtek Posted May 29, 2018 Share #64 Posted May 29, 2018 I don't see much build quality differences between CL and SL, except for weathersealing. If the new camera is at the same level as the Q and CL, there will be very few complaints. My bad, I'm actually referring to how they fee, but I haven't done any real world tests on their endurance. I'm sure both can be equally practical. They just feel absolutely differently, in my opinion. Only by how they feel to be made, SL is probably the best "how well I feel it's made" camera in the world. CL on the other hand - well made but plasticky. It feels like I couldn't destroy SL if I wanted to and that I could destroy CL if I tried. I didn't try any of those insanities btw They could be both equally well made. I just "feel" like SL is much, much more sturdy (but maybe I simply assume that heavier = better) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 29, 2018 Share #65 Posted May 29, 2018 Plasticky is a bit unfair for metal camera. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted May 29, 2018 Share #66 Posted May 29, 2018 Surely the "cheaper one" could be without weather resistance, with worseEVF and worse body quality (built like CL, not like SL). But I really hope they wouldn't because those are SLs (almost only) advantages over competition (let's say A7 III). But stuff like LocalHero suggested, "one card only, smaller battery, smaller rear screen, no cable connectors" - IMO please go for it to lower the price Have you got any - informed - idea of what those features actually cost? I'd guess that it could actually be less expensive for Leica to use the same EVF, screen and battery for example rather than the cost of buying in additional components of different specs and quite likely different manufacturers. How much cheaper does the ?? have to be compare to an SL, assuming it was pared down in features and build quality? I doubt a 5% or 10% difference would mean much to the typical Leica buyer. The lenses are still going to cost a fortune whatever. What happened to the suggested partnership between Leica and Zenit? There was talk of a Zenit version of the SL. Maybe the new camera is a joint venture product which would allow for some more economies of scale......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojtek Posted May 29, 2018 Share #67 Posted May 29, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Have you got any - informed - idea of what those features actually cost? I'd guess that it could actually be less expensive for Leica to use the same EVF, screen and battery for example rather than the cost of buying in additional components of different specs and quite likely different manufacturers. How much cheaper does the ?? have to be compare to an SL, assuming it was pared down in features and build quality? I doubt a 5% or 10% difference would mean much to the typical Leica buyer. The lenses are still going to cost a fortune whatever. What happened to the suggested partnership between Leica and Zenit? There was talk of a Zenit version of the SL. Maybe the new camera is a joint venture product which would allow for some more economies of scale......... Absolutely no idea, but I hope you're right on the EVF! But, the "new" CL has worse EVF than SL, probably because of costs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 29, 2018 Share #68 Posted May 29, 2018 Plasticky is a bit unfair for metal camera. I’m sure it takes a particular skill to achieve. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted May 29, 2018 Share #69 Posted May 29, 2018 Absolutely no idea, but I hope you're right on the EVF! But, the "new" CL has worse EVF than SL, probably because of costs? No doubt partly cost but one is APSC the other Full Frame, I'm assuming that had more to do with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted May 29, 2018 Share #70 Posted May 29, 2018 (edited) An interesting rumour. We shall have to see what if anything appears. For my two cents, the S and SL systems are too large and heavy for some applications while excellent in studio (where I use them).A smaller, perhaps M sized full frame L mount body would be very appealing and the new and soon to arrive Summicron L lenses make much more sense to be able to use on that as well as the CL. Edited May 29, 2018 by hoppyman 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted May 29, 2018 Share #71 Posted May 29, 2018 I think it is (technical) time now for a ML. Means M10 is so most advanced M = Mechanical Messbecher (Rangefinder) with M Mount. Time now for L based Ragender with SL style EVF, L-Bajonet but M-(classic) style fonctions, except zoom lenses and autofocus support. TL for Young urban user CL for Nostalic user ML for modern M user SL for professional user L-Bajonet will replace M iin a mid term vision Am I the only 65 year old who would like a TL, but with the CL's performance and EVF, as a small camera? And am I the only amateur who values the performance standards and functionality of the SL? OTOH, I would really like to see a defence of the M from a modern, non-nostalgic standpoint. Most people here defend it from a nostalgic standpoint ("slow, deliberate photography") rather than as the best tool available for fast contemporary photography. If we had more of the latter it might survive. If it is seen as the only viable digital alternative to a film M, then it is heading for the shredder. My perspective is that it still has a place, but Leica needs to be told that it is not just for the old brigade, and it should be developed accordingly*. I disagree with the last point: the L bayonet has already replaced the M (as Leica's tech for the future). * Oh, in case you were asking, that means replace all brass with alloy, get rid of that forking baseplate, make it weatherproof, add video back in, make it start up instantly from sleep, and give it a silent shutter. FFS, what were they thinking with the M10? A dead end? This post is after two bottles of red wine in Madrid, so my normal cautious style has slipped a bit. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 29, 2018 Share #72 Posted May 29, 2018 It is quite normal that price is determined by feature set rather than component cost, just have a look at the model policy of car makers... It is certainly not something to get upset about, the factory decides the price, the customer to buy, or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyfel Posted May 29, 2018 Share #73 Posted May 29, 2018 All these speculations! Such speculations always occur followed by disappointments when the actual products are announced … products which have been in development for many, many months and which nobody can change at the last minute. Reminds me of gamblers convincing themselves that a certain horse will definitely win several weeks prior to the actual race … but what an anti-climax and bad feelings when the crystal ball is proved wrong. Surely it's better to be patient and just wait for the official announcements rather than build up false hopes. Que sera, sera. dunk totally agree, why waste time with speculations when there are 99.99% certain predictions readily available on the forum …. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted May 29, 2018 Share #74 Posted May 29, 2018 I just hope this FF cammera comes with a line-up of L-mount lenses that are smaller than the SL lenses I think the clue there is from the new Summicron L mount lenses, two released and two coming. A stop slower than the earlier Summilux but much smaller, lighter and faster to focus too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted May 29, 2018 Share #75 Posted May 29, 2018 If this new camera is a bridge between CL and SL it should really allow to take 24MP pictures with both APS-C and FF lenses, shouldn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 29, 2018 Share #76 Posted May 29, 2018 If it is a full-frame sensor, an APS-C lens can only produce a cropped image. It would require an 48 MP -either real MPs or tricked ones- sensor to produce a 24 MP file. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 29, 2018 Share #77 Posted May 29, 2018 Am I the only 65 year old who would like a TL, but with the CL's performance and EVF, as a small camera? And am I the only amateur who values the performance standards and functionality of the SL? OTOH, I would really like to see a defence of the M from a modern, non-nostalgic standpoint. Most people here defend it from a nostalgic standpoint ("slow, deliberate photography") rather than as the best tool available for fast contemporary photography. If we had more of the latter it might survive. If it is seen as the only viable digital alternative to a film M, then it is heading for the shredder. My perspective is that it still has a place, but Leica needs to be told that it is not just for the old brigade, and it should be developed accordingly*. I disagree with the last point: the L bayonet has already replaced the M (as Leica's tech for the future). * Oh, in case you were asking, that means replace all brass with alloy, get rid of that forking baseplate, make it weatherproof, add video back in, make it start up instantly from sleep, and give it a silent shutter. FFS, what were they thinking with the M10? A dead end? This post is after two bottles of red wine in Madrid, so my normal cautious style has slipped a bit. If it takes two bottles of wine to produce a sensible post like this, I'm all for it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted May 30, 2018 Share #78 Posted May 30, 2018 Smaller and lighter AF FF L-mount lenses would be appreciated by most people I believe. I like the SL body though. I really wouldn't want to lose any functionality there and I don't feel the body itself is too heavy, so Leica would need to come up with something pretty innovative to get my attention. Also, I really don't need 3 L-mount bodies, so If I were to buy the new body either the CL or the SL would need to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyniev Posted May 30, 2018 Share #79 Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) Anxiously waiting for more info to decide to place a first day order... hopefully will be comparable if not better than Sony A7RIII. I found the CL to be good but not better than even my 4 year old A7R. And if I order hope I can get it in time for September travels. Edited May 30, 2018 by tonyniev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted May 30, 2018 Share #80 Posted May 30, 2018 you mean if its 24MP or more and full frame right ? so If I were to buy the new body either the CL or the SL would need to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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