SL Lens Tally: What More do we Need?

[lx1713]

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If Leica decides to upend their own S line, perhaps a specifically L line of leaf shutter prime lenses for a high megapixel SL2. It would make the L line of lenses rather unique and the SL rather unusual amongst professional level 35mm sensor cameras.

And if the SL2 has 16 bit files, that combination might expand their market somewhat.

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[marknorton]

I am spending a lot of time on wildlife photography at the moment. Thinking about native SL lenses, the 280mm isn’t long enough and there aren’t enough pixels making up the tiny centre portion of the resulting image you are interested in. I am getting better results with a Nikon D850 and a 400mm Nikkor.

 

So I think Leica need longer lenses and a higher resolution version of the camera.

Edited April 30, 2018 by marknorton

[helged]

I am spending a lot of time on wildlife photography at the moment. Thinking about native SL lenses, the 280mm isn’t long enough and there aren’t enough pixels making up the tiny centre portion of the resulting image you are interested in. I am getting better results with a Nikon D850 and a 400mm Nikkor.

 

So I think Leica need longer lenses and a higher resolution version of the camera.

 

 

The latter (higher-res sensor) will come. Whether Leica also offers a 400mm (or longer) lens - and extender(s) - is another issue.

 

I also use the D850+Nikkor 400mm (f2.8) for wildlife. This combination, together with extenders, gives a 800mm/f5.6 reach. Nikon is reported to come with a 600mm fresnel lens (f5.6), that could be very interesting for wildlife. I welcome longer Leica-lens(es), but possibly not the bank  account... The long, top-end Canikon lenses are already expensive - so if Leica's potential offerings are 2x Canikon - I will (likely) stick to Nikon...

[lx1713]

If they are not going to give us a pro 1.5X crop SL (not that I'm expecting it, a high mp SL with a 24mp crop for TL lenses is fine) I would like TL zoom lenses that are f2.8 constant aperture and OIS built-in. 11-23, 16-50 & 50-135 f2.8 with OIS. That would be very nice.

The existing SL zooms are great. Not complaining.

 

I'm adding on to my earlier thoughts on this.

 

As good as the 24-90 f2.8-4 is, it's:

1. Not easy to change lens quickly with the 16-35 and the 90-280, because of the larger diameters. Especially if you are in a high pressure environment and especially not with only one hand (like what I can do with the Canon 1D).

2. Too heavy for me to use in a mixed video and stills environment for long. Add the shotgun mic and a video light, my kit hits 3 kg. A shoulder rig isn't always a good solution for me.

3. AF is likely to be a lot faster.

 

So once again, TL11-23, 16-50 & 50-135 f2.8 with OIS would be very nice. Logically I don't think they will be as heavy or as fat as the native SL zooms.

Edited May 26, 2018 by lx1713

[thighslapper]

I'm adding on to my earlier thoughts on this.

 

As good as the 24-90 f2.8-4 is, it's:

1. Not easy to change lens quickly with the 16-35 and the 90-280, because of the larger diameters. Especially if you are in a high pressure environment and especially not with only one hand (like what I can do with the Canon 1D).

2. Too heavy for me to use in a mixed video and stills environment for long. Add the shotgun mic and a video light, my kit hits 3 kg. A shoulder rig isn't always a good solution for me.

3. AF is likely to be a lot faster.

 

So once again, TL11-23, 16-50 & 50-135 f2.8 with OIS would be very nice. Logically I don't think they will be as heavy or as fat as the native SL zooms.

 

Leica never intended the SL system to be light and compact ..... it's a full size rugged Pro system. 

 

Whatever new primes and zooms appear I expect them to closely follow the dimensions and weights of those currently released. 

 

If you want small and compact, get a CL. 

[lx1713]

Leica never intended the SL system to be light and compact ..... it's a full size rugged Pro system. 

 

Whatever new primes and zooms appear I expect them to closely follow the dimensions and weights of those currently released. 

 

If you want small and compact, get a CL. 

 

 

I understand what you mean. But even with TL lenses, the SL is still a rugged pro system. The CL isn't likely to be easy to handle with a SF64/profoto A1 or with a shotgun mic / video light mounted. I use 24-90SL, 11-23TL, 55-135TL, 12 VL, 35ZM lenses on the job regularly. The last 4 despite Leica's intention for the SL system to be a full sized rugged Pro system 

 

I just don't like to slow down in changing lenses 

 

I've only briefly handled the CL, the only plus as far as I'm concerned is it becomes a sidekick with limited utility for my work style. Nothing wrong with that. Just me.

The negative would be when a high mp SL comes, the CL gets relegated somewhere because I will want to pair a 24mp SL with a 50mp SL rather than a CL. 

As far as I can tell the CL's 24mp is very competent and 10 years from today, it's going to be better and a 50mp SL sensor delivering lower res images from pro desired OIS TL lenses seems to make sense to me   Or even low light imagery from a 24mp SL

Edited May 26, 2018 by lx1713

[lx1713]

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Pairing a 24mp SL with a 50mp SL with the same UI, like scaling up to native lenses or scaling down to TL lenses is inherently ergonomically invisible thru the EVF/LCD and physical handling (I assume a high mp SL has similar UI and handling) 

 

If I'm sick or tired after shooting for days and weeks, the tactile feel of my camera is important. A SL zoom is going to feel different at a fundamental level from a TL zoom that my befuddled brain doesn't need to think about. You just know 

 

If you are tired, the professional decision of picking a native or a SL lens can be a simple process of which mp (resolution) and when you need to deliver (schedule). Once we leave the bokeh and the artistic requirements out of it, a Leica lens is a Leica lens regardless of format. Most professionals don't assess these qualities for the majority of jobs once they already have the lenses. We just use it     I don't feel compelled to get 1.5x crop lenses when I was using Canon but the TL lenses are so far quite a different breed.

 

The SL zooms are the best in their class so they aren't small but they are also heavy   It's Vieri's very nice review of the 16-35 that roiled my mind. It's a vital range for a event photographer but that size at that aperture range?

 

No way I'm going to reject such a lens if I get a high mp SL. No way I'm carrying that for an event either. Just a dilemma for Leica to solve.

[sillbeers15]

Unless Leica does not intend to continue to offer the S system, the SL will be strategically below the S in certain key specification to differentiate both. So my serious thought is that it is unlikely for Leica to offer l mount to MF sensor body unless there is a game changing development for S008 (which is due sometime later this year). It is just as the TL/CL forum guys ask for a FF version of the CL. In the decision to develop/offer new replacement models, any camera maker will decide accordingly to the factors or constraints below:

 

1      What customers want / price point acceptable;

2      What developed new components or and supplied components available;

3      Strategically position new product to attract new sales but not to cannibalise it's own brand other products.

[tom0511]

compact midrange zoom, compact f4 70-200, 28/2.0

[lx1713]

Unless Leica does not intend to continue to offer the S system, the SL will be strategically below the S in certain key specification to differentiate both. So my serious thought is that it is unlikely for Leica to offer l mount to MF sensor body unless there is a game changing development for S008 (which is due sometime later this year). It is just as the TL/CL forum guys ask for a FF version of the CL. In the decision to develop/offer new replacement models, any camera maker will decide accordingly to the factors or constraints below:

 

1      What customers want / price point acceptable;

2      What developed new components or and supplied components available;

3      Strategically position new product to attract new sales but not to cannibalise it's own brand other products.

 

Makes sense. Are you thinking it should apply to the TL lenses in this case?

 

I think as the L mount camera system matures, there's likely to have overlaps in capabilities. Economically I think only Leica can do this and be profitable. I don't know of any manufacturer who has so many monochrome sensor cameras in a very niche camera category (rangefinder). A niche within a niche?

 

Now the SL and TL lenses are rightly positioned distinctively different. What happens when a 1.5 crop sensor eats the full frame camera's lunch, say in 10 - 20 years?

[lx1713]

I'm being serious here not trying to bait you. Leica lenses are investments. I'm not likely to sell mine if they do the job. The way I see it, the SL lenses are my MF replacements. They are lovely modern lenses for lots of different work. Just not light enough for some things.

Edited May 26, 2018 by lx1713

[Guest VVJ]

It's Vieri's very nice review of the 16-35 that roiled my mind. It's a vital range for a event photographer but that size at that aperture range?

 

IMO this is a missed opportunity.  With stabilization the lens would almost certainly also have appealed more to event and wedding photographers in addition to landscape and architecture photographers.  

[LD_50]

Leica isn’t going to bring wedding and event and landscape and architecture photographers to the SL system with OIS on a wide angle zoom. The zoom simply needs to appeal to the existing SL system users and others who can stomach the price. I really don’t see much need for it on the 16-35. For events I would shoot the 24-90 for the 28-35 range and for landscape (wider range) I don’t need OIS.

 

Price is and will remain the barrier for larger sales numbers.

[Guest VVJ]

Leica isn’t going to bring wedding and event and landscape and architecture photographers to the SL system with OIS on a wide angle zoom. The zoom simply needs to appeal to the existing SL system users and others who can stomach the price. I really don’t see much need for it on the 16-35. For events I would shoot the 24-90 for the 28-35 range and for landscape (wider range) I don’t need OIS.

 

Price is and will remain the barrier for larger sales numbers.

 

Price AND weight AND in my personal case stabilization...  As always and respectfully YMMV...

Edited May 27, 2018 by JorisV

[Mr.Q]

I'm still new to the system but I'd like to see more wide primes, perhaps a 21/2.8 and 28/2.0. A macro would nice too. Other than that I'm good with the current roadmap.

[lx1713]

 

...

I really don’t see much need for it on the 16-35. For events I would shoot the 24-90 for the 28-35 range and for landscape (wider range) I don’t need OIS.

 

Price is and will remain the barrier for larger sales numbers.

I agree with you here. I would not need OIS for an 11-23. I conflated the need for OIS on the other 2 lenses (16-50 f2.8 & 50-135 f2.8) with the 11-23 f2.8. Apologies to those reading my post for the confusion.

 

Price is a function of the economics involved, I won't argue with Leica about that.

[lx1713]

I'm still new to the system but I'd like to see more wide primes, perhaps a 21/2.8 and 28/2.0. A macro would nice too. Other than that I'm good with the current roadmap.

 

Hazarding a guess, you are likely to be satisfied. Whatever focal lengths that sells consistently well historically is likely on the roadmap 

Edited May 27, 2018 by lx1713

[sillbeers15]

I'm still new to the system but I'd like to see more wide primes, perhaps a 21/2.8 and 28/2.0. A macro would nice too. Other than that I'm good with the current roadmap.

I pretty certain that Leica will produce those focal length lenses for SL. Question is ‘when’, based on the past rate of new lenses hitting the market, I suppose 5 years might be a realistic timeline. Provided you’re a diehard Leica fan, you might already run out of patience! Also get ready s blank check for leica to decide ‘how much $’ to charge you. We have accepted it as part of reality to stick to the little red dot.

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Hallo,

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[bencoyote]

I'm curious what other SL users are interested in seeing Leica deliver as the lens arsenal is being slowly rolled out? Myself, I see the 16-35, 70 APO and 90-280 being a brilliant 3 lens kit for my applications. The only lens missing would be a 100 mm Macro that allows 1:1 magnification.

 

What SL lenses would other users like to see Leica deliver?

Yeah exactly what I’ve been hoping for but I have been thinking about the 60mm TL lens the downside is only 12MP to show detail but at the same time much lighter to hold.

 

I would also appreciate focus stacking or at least bracketing built into the camera.

[Guest VVJ]

I pretty certain that Leica will produce those focal length lenses for SL. Question is ‘when’, based on the past rate of new lenses hitting the market, I suppose 5 years might be a realistic timeline. Provided you’re a diehard Leica fan, you might already run out of patience! Also get ready s blank check for leica to decide ‘how much $’ to charge you. We have accepted it as part of reality to stick to the little red dot.

 

I am not so certain.  If the S is any indication Leica rolled out 10 lenses (some with both FPS and CS) in about 5 years and called it a day.  

 

And the S does not have the versatile zooms the SL has covering 16-280mm.  

 

I see a dedicated macro lens being added at some point in time but beyond that I very honestly do not see many more primes being added, certainly not immediately.  I hope I am wrong.