SL Lens Tally: What More do we Need?

[lx1713]

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Price AND weight AND in my personal case stabilization...  As always and respectfully YMMV...

 

 

Have to say I thought hard about this because it's a nice thing to have.

I respect Leica's obvious accomplishment with the 16-35 at the price and weight delivered. 

Other manufacturers do deliver lower price and weight in a smaller package.

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[Linford]

I am pretty happy with the roadmap. It could however move a little more quickly of course. Teleconverter and a nice macro lens--100 or 120mm would be nice. That is my short list. Cheers--lt

 

 

[sillbeers15]

Makes sense. Are you thinking it should apply to the TL lenses in this case?

 

I think as the L mount camera system matures, there's likely to have overlaps in capabilities. Economically I think only Leica can do this and be profitable. I don't know of any manufacturer who has so many monochrome sensor cameras in a very niche camera category (rangefinder). A niche within a niche?

 

Now the SL and TL lenses are rightly positioned distinctively different. What happens when a 1.5 crop sensor eats the full frame camera's lunch, say in 10 - 20 years?

 

Can't you see Leica is milking a cash cow (M series)?

Anything is possible when technology improves. Would you have thought that smart phones could wipeout compact cameras a decade ago?

[sillbeers15]

I am not so certain.  If the S is any indication Leica rolled out 10 lenses (some with both FPS and CS) in about 5 years and called it a day.  

 

And the S does not have the versatile zooms the SL has covering 16-280mm.  

 

I see a dedicated macro lens being added at some point in time but beyond that I very honestly do not see many more primes being added, certainly not immediately.  I hope I am wrong.  

 

To Leica, the SL is the R replacement. Unless poor sales makes the SL a premature EOL (end of life),...Leica is better a making lenses than anything else in photographic gear.

[Guest VVJ]

To Leica, the SL is the R replacement. Unless poor sales makes the SL a premature EOL (end of life),...Leica is better a making lenses than anything else in photographic gear.

 

It obviously all depends on demand.  The last S-lens was 4 years ago... I guess the volume and the demand is probably just not there...

 

After the relative success of the CL I thought we would see more TL-lenses...  apparently also not...

 

I must say I have no clue how the SL is doing commercially... My guess would be that it is selling OK but not great... Key is obviously also how the SL2 will be received compared to the A9ii and the X2D...

[lx1713]

Can't you see Leica is milking a cash cow (M series)?

Anything is possible when technology improves. Would you have thought that smart phones could wipeout compact cameras a decade ago?

 

 

Yes, agreed but Leica's M monochrome is presumably profitable despite small volumes after all they did have a few versions. No other manufacturer does this despite having better tech than Leica. 

 

Just saying it's fun to be a Leica user because they are likely to come out with things like the monochrome, etc and be profitable. 

 

My main thrust otherwise is that of bringing a trio of f2.8 zooms at 1.5x crop is a necessity because technology is making mobility, compactness, light weight, etc a very desirable quality for anyone who doesn't want to be replaced by an iPhone.

 

A guess is that they will bring out modern video zooms aimed at the L mount. They already have Summicron C, Summilux C, Thalia, M 0.8 lenses delivering. Small volume stuff but eye wateringly expensive.

Edited May 28, 2018 by lx1713

[lx1713]

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It obviously all depends on demand.  The last S-lens was 4 years ago... I guess the volume and the demand is probably just not there...

 

After the relative success of the CL I thought we would see more TL-lenses...  apparently also not...

 

I must say I have no clue how the SL is doing commercially... My guess would be that it is selling OK but not great... Key is obviously also how the SL2 will be received compared to the A9ii and the X2D...

 

 

 

There's a natural economic limit to what the range of lenses any format will sustain comfortably. It becomes risky to produce lenses with small markets and margins.

 

I had a 150 and 210 for my 4x5. Used everyday for more than 10 years.

1 had a 50, 80 and 150 for my 6x6. Rarely used.

1 had 21, 35, 90 macro, 16-35, 24-70, 70-200 that's regularly used. Half a dozen rarely.

For my M8 10 lenses initially, sold them and then finally just a 28mm f3.5 voigtlander because it was a cash generator.

 

Nothing beat the 210mm on 4x5 and the M with the 28mm when I looked at accounts. Leica probably looks at the bottomline a little more carefully so they know what focal lengths sell well. And only the best become best sellers.

Edited May 28, 2018 by lx1713

[sillbeers15]

It obviously all depends on demand. The last S-lens was 4 years ago... I guess the volume and the demand is probably just not there...

 

After the relative success of the CL I thought we would see more TL-lenses... apparently also not...

 

I must say I have no clue how the SL is doing commercially... My guess would be that it is selling OK but not great... Key is obviously also how the SL2 will be received compared to the A9ii and the X2D...

You have to put into perspective that Leica is only a $300million company. Google is $600billion. Like a high end luxury sports car maker Aston Martin can not afford to produce too many models as its revenue kerb it’s R&D spending in turn much fewer new models. Just thing along these lines and you will understand Leica and be realistic with your expectations on new products & speed to market.

[Sandokan]

I am not in the habit of tempering my wish list with a perceived notion of what Leica can or cannot afford to design/sell. My wish list is what would get the money out of my wallet. So please don't tell me my list will bankrupt Leica. 

 

What do I look for in a lens? Good AF of course and I prefer the softer, creamier classical lens look rather than the harshness of something with aspherics. The Nikon 58G is a good example - not the sharpest prime in Nikons stable, but so lovely in use. A built in lens hood is the single best feature of Leica M lenses which I wish they had for the SLs.  

 

What I miss are some compact Summicron lenses. With a filter thread of 55 or 60 to indicate the size I would like them to aim for. 

24, 35 and 50. 

 

A 40 Elmarit pancake to replace my often used Canon. 

 

Elmarit 20 and 60. 

[lx1713]

I will love to have 21, 35 and 90 native lenses but I hope and wait for Leica's pro level L mount concepts to come in Photokina before committing further.

 

So far I like what they have done with the firmware except for their non optional approach.

The SL is a lovely first pro level mirrorless but I like to see more of what they will do system wise. There's big gaps still for a pro system naturally at this early stage of the game for the SL.

The attention will be on Canon and Nikon mirrorless but a few of my friends are interested in how Leica's play will pan out.

The 24-90 demonstrated unmatched imagery side by side against Nikon and Canon 1 D  24-70s. Certainly got their attention.

[LD_50]

I don’t think anything Leica does garners attention from Canon.

 

The Canon pro glass is great for what it’s designed for, as is Nikon. They are not really in the high end ultra expensive game at this point, though Sigma may keep pressuring them to go there due to the quality of some of the Art lenses.

 

The Canon and Nikon telephotos prove they can do high end lenses very well. That they haven’t is a marketing (and likely supply) issue more than engineering ability. My Nikon 200 f/2 was fantastic, perhaps the best lens I’ve owned. It was also low volume and massive in price and weight.

[lx1713]

I don’t think anything Leica does garners attention from Canon.

 

The Canon pro glass is great for what it’s designed for, as is Nikon. They are not really in the high end ultra expensive game at this point, though Sigma may keep pressuring them to go there due to the quality of some of the Art lenses.

 

The Canon and Nikon telephotos prove they can do high end lenses very well. That they haven’t is a marketing (and likely supply) issue more than engineering ability. My Nikon 200 f/2 was fantastic, perhaps the best lens I’ve owned. It was also low volume and massive in price and weight.

 

 

"I don’t think anything Leica does garners attention from Canon." No,  of course not. Different markets.

 

"The Canon pro glass is great for what it’s designed for, as is Nikon. They are not really in the high end ultra expensive game at this point, though Sigma may keep pressuring them to go there due to the quality of some of the Art lenses." I do have great regard for my Canon lenses but we were shooting in very difficult lighting. Zooms will flare easily under those conditions. It was in post that the quality of the 24-90 shone. It was impressive what you can do with the 24-90. The Nikon D3X 24-70v1 did better than a Canon 1D with the 24-70 II. We were not allowed flash for that segment. So the evening sun was a killer with flare popping up everywhere. 24-90 did very well here. 

 

"The Canon and Nikon telephotos prove they can do high end lenses very well." Yes, no complains. Actually, I like Nikon lenses more than Canon ones even though I'm on Canon now but what I needed was better on Canon at one stage so there.

 

The massiveness in weight is something I've noted since Erwin Putts mentioned in one of his articles, it does correlate with quality and price. I learnt a lot more about photography since the M8 days. A bit humbling to realise that I learnt a lot from amateurs in this forum then and what a rangefinder can do for your photography.

[Guest VVJ]

I hope and wait for Leica's pro level L mount concepts to come in Photokina before committing further.

 

Not sure whether I get what you mean with this?

[lx1713]

Not sure whether I get what you mean with this?

 

 

Ah, yes. What I am thinking is Leica's commitment to the pro market. Reliably delivering on cameras that's meaningful to pros over time. Anyone can send up a good design occasionally, that is easy. Delivering consistently over decades is what I'm interested. I'm willing to bet small with the SL because it's great for now. Is it good for the long haul? What's in it for the pro to take a big bet on Leica?

 

Until now, I have been largely positive and digging into the possibilities of what Leica can do. They have a large and very broad / deep photography resources to build from. Large format, medium format, 35mm, apsc, m4/3. Lenses for cine, S, SL, TL, M, Rodenstock, Schneider Sinar lenses. It's not about the money here but the will and capability to deliver.

 

Photokina is my point of decision. Not Leica's problem just mine     because a great deal of potential lies in that L mount so what comes next is Leica's decision.

[Guest VVJ]

Ah, yes. What I am thinking is Leica's commitment to the pro market. Reliably delivering on cameras that's meaningful to pros over time. Anyone can send up a good design occasionally, that is easy. Delivering consistently over decades is what I'm interested. I'm willing to bet small with the SL because it's great for now. Is it good for the long haul? What's in it for the pro to take a big bet on Leica?

 

Until now, I have been largely positive and digging into the possibilities of what Leica can do. They have a large and very broad / deep photography resources to build from. Large format, medium format, 35mm, apsc, m4/3. Lenses for cine, S, SL, TL, M, Rodenstock, Schneider Sinar lenses. It's not about the money here but the will and capability to deliver.

 

Photokina is my point of decision. Not Leica's problem just mine     because a great deal of potential lies in that L mount so what comes next is Leica's decision.

 

It will be interesting to hear what comes out of Photokina, and before that what gets announced on June 14th.

 

If the S006 and the TL2 are any indication, those were not immediately characterized by lots of technical innovation... more under the hood refinements and improvements...

 

I expect the same for the SL2 and people who expect Leica to keep up with the frantic pace of Sony might be disappointed.

 

As mentioned elsewhere I also do not expect a lot of new lenses to be announced.  I would be very happy to be proven wrong though... 

[lx1713]

Don't mind my musings. I was thinking about the Rolleiflex 6008 as a comparison system which I loved but brought a great deal of grief.

 

I don't want a pro system that's attractive on the outside and doesn't deliver in the field.

 

The 2 best monetary performers in my professional life is the Sinar C2 and the M8, both are under Leica's umbrella which accounts for my bias.

The M8s were a bit of clunkers but managed to somehow deliver and didn't entirely die on my jobs. While the Sinar from first to last just delivered.

As a professional, I have an affection for equipment I use day in and day out that just delivers.

 

TL zoom lenses that are f2.8 are an important part of the lens repertoire. Very utilitarian which I think Leica may segment out of their thinking.

So far I've not thought of Leica as being very comfortable dealing with the professional market. They are very specifically, a high end consumer company.

The pro stuff is halo marketing as are the Noctiluxes, just different a halo   I'm wondering if they are willing to wear the right halo.

 

I accept the large sizes of the current SL zooms as part and parcel of that brilliant image performance but professionals do need the utility of these lenses at that aperture in a smaller package.

So a TL trio seemed acceptable to me and I believe most event photographers will need. The SL is designed to work well with both SL and TL lenses, an advantage Leica should not throw away.

[Jeff S]

Rumors site predicts new L mount camera to be announced in June, situated between CL and SL, as well as extended lens roadmap...

 

https://leicarumors.com/2018/05/28/new-leica-mirrorless-camera-to-be-announced-in-june-leica-c-m.aspx/

 

Jeff

[sillbeers15]

I am not in the habit of tempering my wish list with a perceived notion of what Leica can or cannot afford to design/sell. My wish list is what would get the money out of my wallet. So please don't tell me my list will bankrupt Leica. 

 

What do I look for in a lens? Good AF of course and I prefer the softer, creamier classical lens look rather than the harshness of something with aspherics. The Nikon 58G is a good example - not the sharpest prime in Nikons stable, but so lovely in use. A built in lens hood is the single best feature of Leica M lenses which I wish they had for the SLs.  

 

What I miss are some compact Summicron lenses. With a filter thread of 55 or 60 to indicate the size I would like them to aim for. 

24, 35 and 50. 

 

A 40 Elmarit pancake to replace my often used Canon. 

 

Elmarit 20 and 60. 

 

Sure,...good luck wishing!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[sillbeers15]

Rumors site predicts new L mount camera to be announced in June, situated between CL and SL, as well as extended lens roadmap...

 

https://leicarumors.com/2018/05/28/new-leica-mirrorless-camera-to-be-announced-in-june-leica-c-m.aspx/

 

Jeff

Just too bad to those waiting for a MF SL,...guess they can carry on wishing. It is entertaining for all.

[Jeff S]

Wishing and predicting....then both celebrating and complaining. Should be entertaining from June through September Photokina, and not just Leica news.

 

Jeff