Luxury Camera Bags by Thorsten von Overgaard

[earleygallery]

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There are threads about this elsewhere on the interweb. All comments I've seen are disapproving I'm pleased to say.

 

I liked one which was along the lines that it's a pity a photographer isn't recording endangered animals with his camera rather than making money out of selling accessories made from their skins.

[M9reno]

We can - Thorsten is offering a 90% discount on everything now. (except his bags, I suppose )

I don't like 90% discounts. They reveal 95% profit margins, or worthless goods, or desperation, or all of the above.

[willeica]

I don't like 90% discounts. They reveal 95% profit margins, or worthless goods, or desperation, or all of the above.

 

Go on, Alfonso. You know that you really want one of those bags. As for the 95% discount you are probably right. My college accountancy professor told us more than 45 years ago that a shop selling at high volume and low margin was much more likely to go bust than one selling a low volume at high margin due to loss multiplier effects. In the camera market Leicas seem to attract a certain fashionista element who are more concerned with bags and straps than how their cameras work. Thorsten is right to try and exploit that market, but he needs to get his sums right. As for me, I am an ardent 'non fashionista' and I am sure that I am not alone in that. I am also sure that Thorsten will survive without my business. 

 

William

[ianman]

I don't like 90% discounts. They reveal 95% profit margins, or worthless goods, or desperation, or all of the above.

 

As I was subscribed to his mailing list until yesterday, I was constantly getting 80% off everything emails. Every day seemed to be the last day of the sale for some reason or the other.

 

Now, that being said, I would like to relate a positive story about Thorsten. A long time ago, when the prices of his classes were more reasonable, I booked one. Sometime later the company I was working for just closed down one day without any warning. As I hadn't taken the class yet and urgently needed the cash, I cancelled the class and requested a refund from Thorsten to which he agreed instantly and without question. There were other orders which I had to cancel at that time and Thorsten is the only person who refunded without question and without wanting to keep some percentage. 

 

This does not in any way excuse his poor choices of material for his bags, but there is no reason not to relate something positive about him too.

[Stealth3kpl]

It's seems extraordinarily ill judged in this day and age i.e. post Victorian. What sort can consider these hideous items luxury goods.

Pete

[vortex]

Vanity Fair by Overgaard, unbelievably!!!

Edited March 26, 2018 by vortex

[satijntje]

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Sick guy. I knew he was, but this confirms it 100 percent

[Sandokan]

What about Matteo Perin in all this? Should we not also put him on a "do not buy from" list? 

 

Originally after looking at the bags, I thought "not for me - too ugly". Only with the hot trending of this topic did I actually read the sales advert. 

 

It is right that to save a wild animal, it has to have a value (cows and pigs would probably be extinct if they did not have value to be farmed). However, everyone in the real world has seen how people (especially the hunting dentist) have been vilified even if what they did was legal. Did Thorsten believe he was above that kind of vilification? The problem is that each skin or tusk from a certifiably naturally dead elephant encourages poachers to "assist" natural causes and leads to another dead elephant.  

[ianman]

What about Matteo Perin in all this? Should we not also put him on a "do not buy from" list? 

 

 

Absolutely. Not that I would buy or desire anything from hime anyway!

I was looking at his website earlier. Actually, and this is not to excuse Thorstens role here, he is probably more responsible for the choice of material than Thorsten.

[Herr Barnack]

What about Matteo Perin in all this? Should we not also put him on a "do not buy from" list? 

 

 

I just looked at his website - it is nauseating.  And that's before we even get to the fact that Perin is proudly displaying Thorsten's hideous $40,000 "masterpieces."

 

After Thorsten's Folly - which should have been the name of his line of crocodile and elephant skin bags - I doubt that anyone will ever again be looked at as a snob for carrying their M camera in a $600-700 USD Fogg satchel. 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[pico]

I am stunned by the crazy prices and revolted by the choice of hides. I attribute that to a grave lapse of judgement on Overgaard's part and think Perin has an agreement to promote them through Overgaard. It is unfortunate, and I believe the whole line will evaporate from Thorsten's catalog in near-time. Let Perin try it on his own. (I would suggest that Perin scale down the dimensions and sell them as Perin Douche Bags.)

 

The number of mean spirited posts surprises me and suggests a simmering resentment for Thorsten: resentment for his pursuit of making a living in photography while most do not? What is going on, really? Has 'the bag' thing precipitated held-back resentments? Deal with that, discard and look afresh.

Edited March 26, 2018 by pico

[IkarusJohn]

I don't think resentment is right.

 

He takes some nice photos and writes useful articles.  The fact that some view him as a whole, along with his "warts", doesn't imply mean spiritedness or resentment.  In all honesty, I wish Thorsten well.  I hope his bag venture fails miserably without costing him anything, but otherwise I do hope his photography business succeeds.  His courses are too expensive for me (even the one held here in New Zealand was clearly priced aggressively in Danish Kroner, then converted to US without thinking about the local cost) and as I've said before, at a personal level he's not my kind of guy.

 

But that does not automatically result in the conclusions you infer, Pico.

Edited March 26, 2018 by IkarusJohn

[Herr Barnack]

I cannot speak for others, but I do not now and never have harbored any level of resentment toward Thorsten due to the fact that he has figured out a way to make his living by photography and workshops. 

 

Neither do I resent Eric Kim, David DuChemin, Steve McCurry, Constantine Manos, Art Wolfe, Jay Maisel, Zack Arias, Bruce Davidson, Rod Planck, Craig Blacklock or any other photographer who has figured this out; they are in fact in many ways inspiring to me and many other photographers who aspire to make their living making photographs and doing what they love.

 

Thorsten's bags have elicited a visceral response from many.  Again, I cannot speak for others but in my view, these $40,000 abominations in elephant skin and crocodile hide represent an obnoxious level of wretched excess and the embodiment of every ugly and false stereotype that Leica M owners/users have been wrongfully branded with in recent years by small minded, judgemental people who do not actually know any of us on a personal level.

 

JMHO/YMMV.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[earleygallery]

No resentment here. I remember Thorsten and his wife turned up at a One Challenge a few years back. I didn't talk to him other than saying hello, but they both seemed like nice people. I don't know much about Hubbard and his Scientology movement other than it's a 'bit wierd' but then so are Masons and Jehovas Witnesses to me, but each to their own, doesn't bother me.

 

I dislike the way some are promoting Leica as a luxury fashion item, something only the very wealthy should buy. Leica themselves are equally to blame for this IMHO with some of their marketing and Thorsten is clearly after a large slice of the 'celebrity' market. Come on, up to $40K for a bag. A bag!! A bag made from Elephants or Crocodiles!!! It literally makes me feel sick that anyone would contemplate it. And no Thorsten, it's not the same as owning a leather belt or pair of shoes.

 

If he was a friend of mine I'd be telling him to get a grip on reality.

[Lonescapes]

I'll be honest: Some of those guys HB mentioned are pretty annoying. Thorsten is not the most annoying on the list, but he's up there.

 

It's not his fault, though. Anyone who made their money essentially as an independent publicist for a camera company (or companies) and then went around saying they make their living taking photos would get under my skin. No, you don't. You make your living running a photo-related website and creating content for it. You couldn't do that without taking photos, but there is a world of difference between being one of the small handful of people whose photos really pay the bills and being one of the slightly larger handful of people who have a side hustle related to photos, and it's the side hustle that pays.

 

The latter is fun and interesting enough; no need to gild the lily by making it seem like the former.

 

I really did not mean to imply anything about Thorsten's character when I said I couldn't comment on it. I genuinely don't know him, and am not at all surprised to hear that he has been a mensch to someone about a refund. I would not jump to the conclusion that this misjudgment implies anything about him as a person. It's one misjudgment which is particularly provocative. My hope is that he can simply decline to sell products which are ethically troubled (it is naive to think that selling 'ethical' elephant skin doesn't help to create a market for illegal products), and then everyone who enjoyed his content before this happened can go back to enjoying it.

 

As for me, I've never felt particularly repulsed or compelled by his steady stream of thoughtful ad copy, so I'll go back to that.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Lonescapes

[pico]

[...] Anyone who made their money essentially as an independent publicist for a camera company (or companies) and then went around saying they make their living taking photos would get under my skin. [... snip thoughtful post ...]

 

There is the outstanding question: Does Thorsten make a living, at least in part, from his photography?  I believe he certainly could.

Edited March 26, 2018 by pico

[Lonescapes]

In part, sure, I believe he does and could.

 

Is the photography in the driver's seat? I would say probably not. But that may ultimately down to subjective judgment, or a matter of degree. Again, I think what he does (teach photography, write about photo products) is pretty rarefied, which is part of what I find annoying when people don't make the occasional and clear distinction between that kind of living and the kind where, if you're selling yourself hard, it's mostly between you and the people hiring you, not you and the public. It's a great gig you've got, why not just describe it accurately?

Edited March 26, 2018 by Lonescapes

[Peter H]

There is the outstanding question: Does Thorsten make a living, at least in part, from his photography?  I believe he certainly could.

Why does it matter, in the context of this thread?

[stray cat]

A quick google search revealed to me that elephant hides are sold by companies that obtain the skins stripped from hunted animals - unbelievably, legally hunted animals. So if your ethical compass tells you it's OK for rich people to enter the elephant's habitat, hunt down and kill these beautiful, wise and noble animals to get their jollies off, then you'll be the kind who has no qualms about buying something, no matter how tasteless, made from the skin, tusks or any other part of the then-harvested dead body. Never mind the orphaned calves or the distraught and grieving mate.

 

What most disturbs me about the whole sordid affair is that some people feel they need to announce their wealth, and by implication their superiority, by either creating or buying products that use the skin of an animal that we lesser humans actually cherish. Boasting of having a bag made from elephant skin? Despicable.

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[Lonescapes]

Why does it matter, in the context of this thread?

 

True, we got off topic. Someone had suggested that perhaps some of the uproar was due to people being resentful of Thorsten for having 'made it' so to speak.