EVF blackout

[Paul J]

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I didn't get the EVF because I'm guessing it's just same as Live View and there is a 2 second black out between shots?

 

Is that right?

[a.noctilux]

Yes.

Very long indeed.

 

When I used Visoflex III (the original reflex housing for M ), I used the function that permitted to release "up" the mirror gently (lesser vibrations).

So this black-out is not something new for me.

 

After the shutter release black-out is (for me) better than before as with original Visoflex III.

 

Side note:

On M10 + Visoflex 020 the black-out time is about half of M240, but always there.

[jaapv]

But the Visofle III the blackout is before the shutter release, causing the missing of moments and camera droop.

A blackout after the shot isn't half as bad.

[a.noctilux]

Jaap, that was I wanted to figure out.

EVF2 on M240 is better than Visoflex III the way I used.

 

And no mirror vibrations with M240.

Less time lag also but it's always there.

 

Time lag, It seems that It's a bit longer with EVF than with only camera live view.

[bocaburger]

The lag comes after the first shot but before the next.  If you're taking a single shot or even a slow series of shots it's not a problem, but if your photographic needs are for quick sequential shots then the EVF is a major frustration.  I'm not even talking about "spray and pray", I'm talking about faster than 1 frame every couple seconds.   The lag on every mirrorless EVF camera I have tried (including the SL and Q) is significantly longer than any SLR with instant-return mirror I have ever used (not speaking of the blackout during the shot, I'm talking about blackout between shots).  EVF's certainly have their uses and advantages in terms of allowing for smaller cameras, but they also have their disadvantages. 

[Paul J]

Thanks, thought so. I'll give it a miss I think.

 

Live view is useful but the 2 second blackout is almost unusable for somethings for me.

 

6 second general startup time is sometimes frustrating too.

[Jeff S]

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Thanks, thought so. I'll give it a miss I think.

 

Live view is useful but the 2 second blackout is almost unusable for somethings for me.

 

6 second general startup time is sometimes frustrating too.

We both seem enthused about the X1D, mostly waiting for lenses. Unlike me, however, you suggested that it might replace your M system. Beware that the X1D, even with FW updates, still suffers from EVF blackout and slow startup. I see it as a slower, complementary system to the M, not as a replacement for quick shooting.

 

Of course an X2D may show improvements, but if you’re expecting mirrorless MF to be M RF-like in terms of responsiveness, you might be disappointed.

 

Jeff

[Exodies]

Unusable for some things but indispensable for others. Wider than 28, longer than 75 is much easier to frame/focus with the EVF. If there’s the occasional shot where the 2 second delay would be a problem - switch off live view and look through the rangefinder.

[Paul J]

We both seem enthused about the X1D, mostly waiting for lenses. Unlike me, however, you suggested that it might replace your M system. Beware that the X1D, even with FW updates, still suffers from EVF blackout and slow startup. I see it as a slower, complementary system to the M, not as a replacement for quick shooting.

 

Of course an X2D may show improvements, but if you’re expecting mirrorless MF to be M RF-like in terms of responsiveness, you might be disappointed.

 

Jeff

It might eventually replace my M. I'm used to 1fps on Medium Format and the M9 for that matter and it's fine. The X1D blackout with RAW only is just a little over 1 second which is actually quite usable I think. 2 seconds of this EVF is too long though. The subject has moved, you've missed some subtle expressions, etc, etc, etc.

 

The X2D while still a mystery is looking like a different beast entirely. This 50MP Sony sensor is hardware limited and the new sensor specs show 6fps at full resolution, 18fps in 8K crop and 30fps in 4k crop mode. So I think black out time is going to be very low in normal use.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Paul J

[Jeff S]

Also slow startup, for now.

 

Jeff

[pedaes]

Horses for courses. It is great for landscape work using tripod and graduated filters.

[Luke_Miller]

With the EVF on my M240 I get about a half second blackout if I immediately perform a half press of the shutter.

[rsolomon]

at first I struggled to see the pro's out weighing the con's, but then my focus hit ratio went close to 100, I think in the end its a great piece of equipment. I have heard some complain about resolution , I shoot DNG / BW jpeg so I have no concerns there either.  I do understand the EVF for the M10 is "better" but not sure how 

[david strachan]

Macro is usually when i use the Viso EVF...mainly.  I want to review the image anyway, so the blackout doesn't come into my workflow angst.

 

If you're doing Continuous, you are gunning anyway, perhaps for the right expression...in that situation review is necessary anyway. Make sure no-one blinked, for example.

 

There is always the OVF to see what is happening in real time.  Isn't that why we like the rangefinder anyway?

 

...

[Paul J]

I'm sure for lots of people 1 frame in 2 seconds is totally fine. Like I said, I find live view very useful - for quick exposure review, but mostly for framing reasons and you can certainly get shots you wouldn't normally be able to get with just the rangefinder because of parallax. So I don't deny how useful it is. But for me it's unnecessary to buy the EVF for that.

 

But when you're shooting a portrait or anything in life that is a real moment, not staged or static, moments happen at random, not every 2 seconds. I have found myself being a little frustrated missing shots and have learned it's just best to leave it off and just use the rangefinder. Which is frustrating because live view and an evf would otherwise be very useful.

 

Also the resolution requires zooming in to focus (focus assist) and that slows it down even more.

 

As a reference I can wind on and take 3 shots with a film camera in that black out time.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Paul J

[Luke_Miller]

There seems to be no way to disable the automatic image review display in the EVF. But as I mentioned above it goes away with a half-press of the shutter button.  So something like a half second delay between shots if you don't have to refocus.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Luke_Miller

[Exodies]

Once you’ve got the framing and are just waiting for the moment, switch off live view and use the rangefinder. Live view on the LCD is prone to being wiped out by the sun and if you have spectacles set to 2m for the finders the LCD is at the wrong distance.

[Luke_Miller]

Once you’ve got the framing and are just waiting for the moment, switch off live view and use the rangefinder. 

 

I agree.  My EVF experience is limited to the Nikon 1 V1 (EVF only) and my M-240 with EVF.  I am primarily an event shooter so I photograph dynamic subjects who are changing expressions and gesturing.  I find the review image that pops up in the EVF after the shot is rarely what I was expecting.  The latency involved means that what I saw when I released the shutter is almost always not what was actually captured.  So with the M and EVF I do what Exodies suggests, and with the Nikon V1 I make sure to keep both eyes open and view the subject with the left eye while the right one is maintaining composition looking through the EVF. I release the shutter based on what I see with the left eye. It is actually easier than it sounds and is effective in getting the shots I want.

[Paul J]

I do that sometimes but there are limited situations that it works.

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[jmahto]

I use EVF for focusing on tripods. It is much easier to use (due to better eye relief and tilt) compared to using LCD in bright light. For me having EVF is no brained if you go long.

 

But for handheld shooting overlapping with RF ranged focal length, it is just pain.

Edit: even with pain, it is doable if you don't have better alternative handy at the moment. See this thread.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/281632-using-m240-to-catch-action/?view=getnewpost

 

It depends on your LV usage.

Edited March 7, 2018 by jmahto