Jeff S Posted February 16, 2018 Share #61  Posted February 16, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration)  * he's now gone from the forum ..... he has forsaken cheap rubbishy Leicas for a Hasselblad H6D-100c instead...... He’s still posting here occasionally as NW67.  Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 Hi Jeff S, Take a look here 75 and 90mm SL lenses will arrive in February. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jplomley Posted February 17, 2018 Share #62 Â Posted February 17, 2018 Would love to see a comparison of the M 90 APO vs the SL 90. Anyone own both? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDR Posted February 17, 2018 Share #63 Â Posted February 17, 2018 I bought an SL to replace one of my Ms. It is a very fine camera that I use with my M lenses. I had hoped to experiment with some of the SL lenses too. I bought the 50mm SL summilux, which is gigantic and heavy. It's the sort of lens that one might use in a studio or on location "shoots" where you can tote it around on a hand truck.You know you're toting a howitzer when a guy with canon 5D and 50mmf/1.2 has what looks to be a compact outfit. I was holding onto this optical elephant to trade for a 50mm SL summicron or 35mm SL summicron. But now I see that these lenses are also abnormally large and heavy, even if they are slightly smaller and lighter than the 50mm SL summmilux. I know that these lenses have auto focus, but why must they be so enormous? The 75mm SL summicron weighs 20 grams more than the 50mm M Â f/0.95 noctilux. Â Â Tim 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted February 17, 2018 Share #64 Â Posted February 17, 2018 I have the 75 and think it handles really well. It is heavier than a comparable M lens, but that is the price to pay for AF 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 17, 2018 Share #65  Posted February 17, 2018 (edited)  I know that these lenses have auto focus, but why must they be so enormous? The 75mm SL summicron weighs 20 grams more than the 50mm M  f/0.95 noctilux.   Tim  1. The sort of optical quality Leica aspires to requires multiple relatively large real glass elements  2. AF on this lens consists of two motors, not one, to achieve reasonably quick AF  3. Metal construction with weather sealing ..... and typical german (over) engineering .... but at least it will last.  I'm afraid going the extra mile to achieve the sort of resolution and control of aberrations that these lenses exhibit is never going to come without a weight and size penalty. You could probably get 80% of the way with a much lighter and more compact package, or APS-C, but for full frame if you want optical quality there are no short cuts.....  Bear in mind the 'AF' mechanism for M lenses is not small ...... on average 70-80kg and 1.7-1.9m. Edited February 17, 2018 by thighslapper 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 17, 2018 Share #66 Â Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) 70-80 g and 1.7-1.9 cm? Edited February 17, 2018 by scott kirkpatrick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted February 17, 2018 Share #67 Â Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 70-80 g and 1.7-1.9 cm? The weight and height of a typical person The way you AF an M lens is human power. Pretty sure that was his point. Edited February 17, 2018 by Donzo98 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted February 17, 2018 Share #68 Â Posted February 17, 2018 I do not have the actual dimensions, the optical barrel of SL lenses is larger than all the M primes. Â While I've seen in some article the X1D taking on M mount lenses,....it means the potential of the SL native lenses to taken on a larger footprint sensor in future? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 17, 2018 Share #69 Â Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) deleted Edited February 17, 2018 by thighslapper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 17, 2018 Share #70  Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) 1. The sort of optical quality Leica aspires to requires multiple relatively large real glass elements  2. AF on this lens consists of two motors, not one, to achieve reasonably quick AF  3. Metal construction with weather sealing ..... and typical german (over) engineering .... but at least it will last.  I'm afraid going the extra mile to achieve the sort of resolution and control of aberrations that these lenses exhibit is never going to come without a weight and size penalty. You could probably get 80% of the way with a much lighter and more compact package, or APS-C, but for full frame if you want optical quality there are no short cuts.....  Bear in mind the 'AF' mechanism for M lenses is not small ...... on average 70-80kg and 1.7-1.9m. My guess is that Leica could work its magic to reduce the size a bit, but the price trade off might be prohibitive. And it appears that they gained some economies by using the same outer lens barrel (as noted by Karbe) on the most recent 3 Summicrons. On the other hand, I mighmt not have a clue about such things. Jeff Edited February 17, 2018 by Jeff S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 17, 2018 Share #71 Â Posted February 17, 2018 The weight and height of a typical person The way you AF an M lens is human power. Pretty sure that was his point. Oh, I missed that entirely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 17, 2018 Share #72  Posted February 17, 2018 My guess is that Leica could work its magic to reduce the size a bit, but the price trade off might be prohibitive. And it appears that they gained some economies by using the same outer lens barrel (as noted by Karbe) on the most recent 3 Summicrons. On the other hand, I mighmt not have a clue about such things.  Jeff  Personally I prefer them being a uniform diameter .... looks like you will only need 2 diameters of lens adapters/filters for the whole lot...... 82mm and 67mm ..... which certainly helps for things like landscape filters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 17, 2018 Share #73  Posted February 17, 2018 Personally I prefer them being a uniform diameter .... looks like you will only need 2 diameters of lens adapters/filters for the whole lot...... 82mm and 67mm ..... which certainly helps for things like landscape filters Exactly, and I’m sure Leica considered this (for them and for users) in lieu of designing each to the smallest possible size.  Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDR Posted February 17, 2018 Share #74  Posted February 17, 2018 I can certainly see why the SL lenses need to be larger than M lenses to accommodate auto-focus. But if they needed to be XXXL to meet the highest optical standards, then the M lenses would be at least XL. Or are the M lenses inferior to the SL lenses? I don't think that they are.  Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 17, 2018 Share #75  Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) I can certainly see why the SL lenses need to be larger than M lenses to accommodate auto-focus. But if they needed to be XXXL to meet the highest optical standards, then the M lenses would be at least XL. Or are the M lenses inferior to the SL lenses? I don't think that they are.  Tim No, the M lenses are not inferior. But they need to be small to avoid VF blockage, and can cost much more than SL lenses through use of special glass and engineering. Plus there are no motors or circuit boards, mostly just glass and focus mount. Also, until recently, they were designed for film, allowing broader tolerance for light incidence and edge detail. Newer iterations, designed for digital, require modern techniques and now tend to be bigger. Anyway, that’s what I gather based on readings. Others here will have much more technical grounding.  I’ve posted this interview with Peter Karbe discussing the 50 Summilux ASPH (read both pages). His comments regarding the special glass needs and build challenges are informative... https://www.shutterbug.com/content/leica-lens-saga-interview-peter-karbe  Jeff Edited February 17, 2018 by Jeff S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elwyn Posted February 18, 2018 Share #76 Â Posted February 18, 2018 Like some other have noted, I'm holding back with any thoughts of purchases (M or SL glass), until I've seen a couple of respected reviews. The SL 75 has been available locally (UK) for a few weeks now, so I'm surprised I've not seen any reviews yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancook Posted February 18, 2018 Share #77  Posted February 18, 2018 My 75SL will arrive tomorrow,  I'm curious to how it performs vs the 24-90 @ 75mm  I am an IQ fiend, there's a good chance I will be very happy.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted February 18, 2018 Share #78 Â Posted February 18, 2018 Congratulations on your purchase. Enjoy and let us know how you rate it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 18, 2018 Share #79  Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) My 75SL will arrive tomorrow,  I'm curious to how it performs vs the 24-90 @ 75mm  I am an IQ fiend, there's a good chance I will be very happy..  Optically, I think all the prime lenses that Leica currently offer (M, S & SL) are as close to perfection as is feasible, so I cannot see anyone grumbling about that part of the equation.  Mine has been stuck on f2 since I got it ...... which is the main point and the situation where it really shines. Edited February 18, 2018 by thighslapper 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 18, 2018 Share #80  Posted February 18, 2018 I would be surprised if the new Summicron-SLs and the 24-90 SL, when both are shot at, say f/5.6 and 75 or 90 mm, will render differently. They each reflect the design objectives of one distinguished team. But the new lenses at f/2.0 will be the interesting point. I want to see how their style compares with the looks of the M's Summilux and Noctilux. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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