Leica CL: again, another user interface.....

[jonoslack]

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It’s usually when people can’t win the argument on merit that they resort to personal attacks.

Hi there -

Marc was certainly joking - which is how I took it - and so was I, I’m sure that Marc would let you have the commission instead

[marcg]

Hi Marc

No problem - you can have ALL my commission

 

Aw shucks. It kind of gives me that warm Leica glow right through my heart.

 

Thanks

[marcg]

I’m sure that Marc would let you have the commission instead

 

Now you really are joking!!!  I hope.

Edited November 27, 2017 by marcg

[Tobers]

When I played with a CL I found the menu structure and buttons immediately usable as it is so similar to the M10. The buttons within the top control dials are excellent too.

[flyalf]

Hei,

 

Perhaps some of you can answer these GUI questions, thanks in advance:

- A separate "hard" self-timer button (2s for tripod usage)?

- DNG-only option?

- Change what folder to save images on memory card from menu?
- Settings in full stops on dials (not 1/3 or 1/2)?

And:
- Typical start-up time?

[jonoslack]

Hei,

 

Perhaps some of you can answer these GUI questions, thanks in advance:

 

- A separate "hard" self-timer button (2s for tripod usage)?

- DNG-only option?

- Change what folder to save images on memory card from menu?

- Settings in full stops on dials (not 1/3 or 1/2)?

 

And:

- Typical start-up time?

 

 

There aren't any hard anything buttons

BUT - you can put the self timer on to either of the function button which will make it effectively 'hard'

There is a DNG only 

I dont think you can change folder

You can't change the settings to full stops

Startup time is quick - about a second?

 

I hope that helps

Edited November 27, 2017 by jonoslack

[LocalHero1953]

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Hei,

 

Perhaps some of you can answer these GUI questions, thanks in advance:

 

- A separate "hard" self-timer button (2s for tripod usage)?

- DNG-only option?

- Change what folder to save images on memory card from menu?

- Settings in full stops on dials (not 1/3 or 1/2)?

 

And:

- Typical start-up time?

Hi Alf - I remember you being part of an occasionally heated discussion about start up time for the M240! As Jono says, start up is a second (or less), but wake up time from sleep is almost instantaneous.

Edited November 27, 2017 by LocalHero1953

[Guest VVJ]

Quite agree about the joy stick - should have been on the CL without a doubt. 

 

I would be interesting to have some more insight in design decisions like this... if a joystick works for Fuji, the Sony A7rIII and the Leica SL, why on earth would it not work for the CL...?

[Jeff S]

And weather sealing. Even easier without a joystick. The SL has both.

 

Jeff

[FlashGordonPhotography]

...........Actually I suppose that what I would REALLY like is the SL 4 buttons - but with the soft/hard press to work like the Fn button on the CL, and the camera menu moved to the top right (so that the favorites was on the top left which is what you get when you press it!)......................

 

I do wonder if Leica realised how good the SL button and joystick layout is?

 

You could move the functions (or better make the short press programmable as well) if you wanted. You could make the buttons smaller for the M10/CL. Same as they are now just two on each side. On the CL the two top buttons mimic the dial and Fn button on the SL anyway. Dump the labels, like on the S/SL. Change the four way to a joystick (I can make a convincing argument for a joystick and touch screen on the M10 and touch screen on the S). Make the menus touch sensitive. Bam! Product consistency.

 

I wonder if I went to Wetzlar that, I would find the M10 and CL software people on one floor. The SL and S software designers on another floor and the TL software designers in a shed out the back?

 

Gordon

 

p.s. I've grown to really like the TL menus and will miss them on the CL. The Hasselblad X1D menus are even better. Near perfect. The SL buttons are my favourite by some margin.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I do wonder if Leica realised how good the SL button and joystick layout is?

 

....

 

I wonder if I went to Wetzlar that, I would find the M10 and CL software people on one floor. The SL and S software designers on another floor and the TL software designers in a shed out the back?

 

Gordon

It's UI designers that you want to find, and there can't be too many of them.  If they are smart they will each locate themselves in the midst of their product's most experienced and thus respected hardware engineers, and only meet each other over coffee once a day. If they were to spend all their time together, they would get ignored.  Firmware, we keep hearing, is subcontracted out.  The people in the shed out back (or left behind in Solms) are the folks who translate manuals back into English when the product is done.  The CL manual still has lines in the original German.

[NZDavid]

As mentioned in another thread, I far prefer the original classic analog controls. They are much simpler than multi-function dials, peering at an LCD, and clicking on menu options. At least, for all main controls. Fortunately, the M camera preserves this approach. 

 

One reason, I suppose, for not having the aperture controls on a top dial is because there are no aperture rings on the CL-TL series lenses. 

 

That said, the controls still look relatively easy to use, but I wonder how easier the LCDs are to see in bright light?

[scott kirkpatrick]

I've heard it said that the beauty of standards are that there are so many of them.  But old ones do fade away or get left unused.  This seems to be an evolution of Leica's approach to electronically controlled lenses, and they have had only three generations (S, SL, CL) to evolve.  Perhaps the TL is Leica's marsupial. We don't know if it can still cross-breed with the CL.  At least this evolution is a bit faster than Darwin's.

Edited November 30, 2017 by scott kirkpatrick

[jaapv]

It's UI designers that you want to find, and there can't be too many of them.  If they are smart they will each locate themselves in the midst of their product's most experienced and thus respected hardware engineers, and only meet each other over coffee once a day. If they were to spend all their time together, they would get ignored.  Firmware, we keep hearing, is subcontracted out.  The people in the shed out back (or left behind in Solms) are the folks who translate manuals back into English when the product is done.  The CL manual still has lines in the original German.

As Leica gains experience (and high-level programmers) they are subcontracting less.