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Leica CL: again, another user interface.....


saxo

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I'm not sure if it's really necessary to change user interface with (nearly) every new camera line?

 

Take the historic M-line apart: when Leica introduced the SL, the user interface was similiar to the S line. This was a customer friendly solution. The user-interface of the SL is (nearly) perfect.

But what about the TL respectivly the new CL? Two different user interfaces?

Imagin: a car family, like the BMW 3, 5 and 7 would have different user interfaces? That makes no sense. You want to feel familiar with the product, if you decide to buy a CL e.g. as a supplement to an existing SL. You may incorporate an optional 'simple menu' for beginners, but not a different user interface from ground. Sorry Leica, but this was not customer friendly.

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The CL user interface seems like a "Merger" of X and M user interface.

I believe the TL user interface is not for everybody, so Leica maybe wanted a user interface which is closer to M/X for those people. Offering both products (T2 and CL) let us choose, not a bad thing IMO.

Personally I would prefer the 4 button solution of SL and S over the "3 button on left" side which is offered in the M10 and CL now.

I find the 4 buttons of the SL and S faster in use.

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I'm not sure if it's really necessary to change user interface with (nearly) every new camera line?

 

Take the historic M-line apart: when Leica introduced the SL, the user interface was similiar to the S line. This was a customer friendly solution. The user-interface of the SL is (nearly) perfect.

But what about the TL respectivly the new CL? Two different user interfaces?

Imagin: a car family, like the BMW 3, 5 and 7 would have different user interfaces? That makes no sense. You want to feel familiar with the product, if you decide to buy a CL e.g. as a supplement to an existing SL. You may incorporate an optional 'simple menu' for beginners, but not a different user interface from ground. Sorry Leica, but this was not customer friendly.

 

+100. Couldn't agree more.

 

It seems they're just throwing sh** against a wall and seeing what sticks. Each camera also has a different battery as well. And on the SL different dials do different things in different modes.

 

Leica does a lot well but has no clue on being consistent. 

 

Gordon

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They have to differentiate products. The CL is close enough to the TL to look for different customer bases. Personally, I disliked the "iPhone" interface of the T enough to cancel my pre-order. The CL is designed to appeal to more conventional buyers - hence a more conservative UI.

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+100. Couldn't agree more.

 

It seems they're just throwing sh** against a wall and seeing what sticks. Each camera also has a different battery as well. And on the SL different dials do different things in different modes.

 

Leica does a lot well but has no clue on being consistent. 

 

Gordon

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

The SL interface is really nice - I know it changes with modes, and that should be rectified, but four buttons and the joystick works for me.  The TL is different.  With the TL2, I use the USB-C cable and iPhone charger - works a treat.  I really see no reason why Leica can't standardise batteries and chargers - it's just haphazard and lazy the way they currently do it.

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The SL soft button interface came straight from the S, which in turn came from Phase. The SL battery release likewise came from the S. Sometimes borrowing a good idea is a good idea.

 

The 'something for everyone' approach has some logic, but at some point there's benefit to standardizing those features that support Leica customers' use of backup or complementary systems.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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Couldn't agree more.

 

The SL interface is really nice - I know it changes with modes, and that should be rectified, but four buttons and the joystick works for me.  The TL is different.  With the TL2, I use the USB-C cable and iPhone charger - works a treat.  I really see no reason why Leica can't standardise batteries and chargers - it's just haphazard and lazy the way they currently do it.

Well, now that they have started using non-idiosyncratic batteries, let's hope they keep it up. It would be too much to expect an S series camera to have the same small battery as a CL, but a bit more mainstream would be customer-friendly.

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Well, now that they have started using non-idiosyncratic batteries, let's hope they keep it up. It would be too much to expect an S series camera to have the same small battery as a CL, but a bit more mainstream would be customer-friendly.

 

I'm not sure that I disagree, particularly if we don't pay two or three times the price because it's got "Leica" written on it ...

 

I'm a bit sensitive about batteries.  Over the years, I've bought various electronic products (mostly Sony rubbish) where the batteries have died rendering the product unusable, or the product has died leaving me with perfectly good batteries I can't use on anything else.  These things have rare earth metals sourced fro open pit mines in Australia, China and the Congo (think of the sweat labour that went into those).  Batteries are an environmental disaster that will bite us big time.

 

That aside, I rather like the click-in/click-out system with the SL & TL2, and I like in camera charging (as an option) using a USB-C cable and iPhone charger.  If they chose another industry standard battery, and used it consistently, I'd be happy.  My favourite battery is the one in my M-A ...

Edited by IkarusJohn
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Hi All

This is something that has occupying my poor tired brain almost non stop for the last 4 months (since I first got the CL).

My initial response was “Why the hell couldn’t they use the SL interface”

Mind you, that was my initial response to the M10 3 button interface as well.

 

But I’m beginning to get a handle on the thinking. Certainly the menu systems of all 3 are very similar, with a favorites menu and branches - I actually think that although the Camera / Image / Favorites / Setup of the SL makes perfect theoretical sense, the problem is it’s quite hard to remember which menu things fall into (not to mention that when you first press TL button you get the favorites menu in the position of the Camera menu!

 

So the button layout and the menu principles of the CL are really like the M. The principle of the two touch button has been taken from the SL to the CL . . But has actually been improved in functionality - I REALLY like the way that you can choose a number of options for each function button, and then short press brings up the highlighted and long lets you select from your choices. I think it’s better than the SL, it’s intuitive and really well thought out. . . . . . But perhaps it would have been good if this had been implemented within the 4 button methodology on the SL (and I definitely miss the joy stick!).

 

So, to the original OP - it’s certainly NOT just another user interface - there are many more similarities than meet the eye.

 

Perhaps the real point is that 4 months in, picking up the CL is still an instant buzz, it really is SO nice to shoot with.

 

All the best

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Good morning,

since Leica has decreased the number of buttons on the M10 and CL which I do not like too much I wondered how other think about this?

I prefer the approach of the S and SL with 4 buttons which can also be used for fast access to important functions. (I configured for ISO, WB, user preset and AF-mode)

Once one get used ot it it works very fast and well. At first 3 buttons look more simple, but in the end it is not as fast as previous M-models or the 4 button solution.

Which one do you prefer?

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As far as batties are concernedj . .

The SL battery wouldn’t have fitted

The TL battery (probably) doesn’t have enough power

. . . So why not use the battery from the Q and the Vlux?

. . . . That’s what they did.

 

I think it’s an excellent choice - not least because I had 3 of them lying around!

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Ideally Leica would have found the perfect interface from day 1 and stuck with it. Things don't work out like that, but it's still irritating to have to deal with another iteration.

 

I would have preferred the TL2 touchscreen interface with access to each menu page via an icon on the main menu - that way I don't have to remember which page has the function I want and where it is. I hope (vainly, I'm sure) that Leica will implement an option for this by firmware in future; that TL2 interface is too good to be confined to one camera.

 

I'm fine with the programmable buttons - I just have to work out which functions I put in the Favourites screen and which ones I put on the dial/Fn button - and should I duplicate between buttons and Favourites.

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As far as batties are concernedj . .

The SL battery wouldn’t have fitted

The TL battery (probably) doesn’t have enough power

. . . So why not use the battery from the Q and the Vlux?

. . . . That’s what they did.

 

I think it’s an excellent choice - not least because I had 3 of them lying around!

 

TL battery has only 985 mAh while the widely available BP-DC12 (under several names) has some voltage and 1200 mAh -- 20% more.  I wondered about the batteries in the M10, but they are 7.4 V (so slightly different chemistry) and put out 1300 mAh, <10% more (the extra voltage is wasted).  And they cost twice as much.

 

One thing I learned from exposure to the PC and laptop business is that special sized and shaped batteries can be highly profitable, but when a model run ends, bad planning can lead to a lot of batteries of no conceivable use sitting in a warehouse.  They have to be written off at a dead loss which could exceed the profit on that model.  So this is a wise move on Leica's part, not just for us.

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Perhaps the real point is that 4 months in, picking up the CL is still an instant buzz, it really is SO nice to shoot with.

 

All the best

 

 

 

I think it’s an excellent choice - not least because I had 3 of them lying around!

 

All these positive waves about this camera. I'm nearly sold.
 
How about if I buy one that we split your commission 50-50?
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Good morning,

since Leica has decreased the number of buttons on the M10 and CL which I do not like too much I wondered how other think about this?

I prefer the approach of the S and SL with 4 buttons which can also be used for fast access to important functions. (I configured for ISO, WB, user preset and AF-mode)

Once one get used ot it it works very fast and well. At first 3 buttons look more simple, but in the end it is not as fast as previous M-models or the 4 button solution.

Which one do you prefer?

Hi There Tom

 

On the CL I have the Fn button on AF-Mode or ISO and the right dial button on WB and Exposure Mode . . and I find it pretty easy to manage (added to which it's normally a short press).

 

So, I'm not sure that I agree with you. First of all, on that basis the CL also has buttons in the centre of the dials . . but then the SL has buttons on the front and top plate (7 buttons?). 

Actually I suppose that what I would REALLY like is the SL 4 buttons - but with the soft/hard press to work like the Fn button on the CL, and the camera menu moved to the top right (so that the favorites was on the top left which is what you get when you press it!).

 

But I wasn't really trying to say that the CL was perfect, just that having used it I could certainly see the point of it. This stuff is really complicated IMHO and making a completely coherent interface isn't something anyone seems to be able to manage!

Edited by jonoslack
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My initial response was “Why the hell couldn’t they use the SL interface”

Mind you, that was my initial response to the M10 3 button interface as well.

 

But I’m beginning to get a handle on the thinking. Certainly the menu systems of all 3 are very similar, with a favorites menu and branches - I actually think that although the Camera / Image / Favorites / Setup of the SL makes perfect theoretical sense, the problem is it’s quite hard to remember which menu things fall into (not to mention that when you first press TL button you get the favorites menu in the position of the Camera menu!

 

So the button layout and the menu principles of the CL are really like the M. The principle of the two touch button has been taken from the SL to the CL . . 

 

The SL buttons each have three interactions -- one short, two shorts, one long and they each do different things.  I'm intrigued that the CL  could do it all with two interactions, short and long, on only three buttons.  And they seem to underutilize the 4-way and confirmation button, which should have been a joystick.  I think this has led to much deeper menus, but I'll wait to try things with a real CL before reaching any conclusions.

 

But if I get stuck, the command is short short short long long long short short short   and then Siri will come to help, right?

 

scott

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The SL buttons each have three interactions -- one short, two shorts, one long and they each do different things.  I'm intrigued that the CL  could do it all with two interactions, short and long, on only three buttons.  And they seem to underutilize the 4-way and confirmation button, which should have been a joystick.  I think this has led to much deeper menus, but I'll wait to try things with a real CL before reaching any conclusions.

 

But if I get stuck, the command is short short short long long long short short short   and then Siri will come to help, right?

 

scott

 

:)

Quite agree about the joy stick - should have been on the CL without a doubt. 

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