SL video tutorial suggestions

[Irakly Shanidze]

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I am nitpicking, but it's bigger than Super16, and smaller than Academy 35.

The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera, which also uses a M4/3 mount, has a Super16-sized sensor.

 

Sorry, mia culpa. Still, my point stands: larger sensor = better image plasticity all other things being equal

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[LocalHero1953]

Reviving this thread, as it seems to have the content most relevant to what I'm interested in.....and the most informative participants are still around!

I want to take continuous videos of full length theatre, music theatre and concert recitals, so typically I would be static recording from a tripod for durations of 1-2 hours.

I have the SL (and CL) and a couple of MFT lenses, so the two options I'm looking at are:
- SL + 24-90 (or a TL 18-56), recording onto Blackmagic Video Assist 4k or Atomos Ninja V.
- Blackmagic Pocket Cinema with Olympus zoom lens 18-55.

The specific questions I have are:
- How long will the SL's battery stream video for at 4k or 1080p? 2 hrs?
- How long a 4k or 1080p video can one record on either the BM Video Assist with 128Gb SD cards or the BM Pocket Cinema SD cards? I believe the BM Pocket Cinema can save direct to a SSD drive, may be the best solution, since it can then be plugged in to a PC for editing, but it would be nice to record in a neat single unit if possible.

I realise the Atomos Ninja V has a (custom) SSD drive, so recording capacity is not an issue.

Any other advice about static recording of long events like this? Is there better kit in the same price range?

[BernardC]

The SL doesn't have an external power input, so you might run out of power at an inconvenient time. I've done shots over 30 minutes, but never 2 hours. The SL battery grip would double your run time. It's an expensive option if you don't own it already.

The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema 4K is a simpler option. It has a power input, and it can record to an external USB-C drive.

Blackmagic's site lists storage rates. For instance, ProRes422 in 4K is 73.6 MB/s, which is 264960 MB/h (258 GB). Their smallest 4K format is ProRes Proxy at  22.4 MB/s (80.6 GB/h). That could fit 2 hours on a 256GB SD card.

I would be tempted to use a standard 4K camcorder. Your files will be more compressed, but they may suit your requirements. They typically record H264 at 100 Mb/s (bits, not bytes), so 12.5 MB/s. Your only worry then would be battery life, or finding an outlet for the power adapter.

[LocalHero1953]

Thanks, Bernard. You may be right about the camcorder for this application, but my concern was partly how well they deal with low light and artificial light. If either of these need correcting then a simple compressed format may not be good enough. But that's something I'd also welcome advice on. 

I may borrow such a camcorder, or hire a more advanced one, to try out the options. 

Part of me, though, wants to try out the more advanced video cameras/recorders, as a learning exercise. 

[Guest]

Best advice is to try it ... the highest quality video from the SL is in live view ... without hitting the record button ... to an external 10 bit monitor recorder. This avoids the internal noise reduction the SL does when the record button is pushed.

So ... put your SL on a tripod activate live view and time how long the battery lasts. I think 2 hours is doable. 

An alternative to the BM or Atomos is the Video Devices PIX-E5 ... will do ProRes HQ to 30P and can be powered by AC or longlasting large Sony batteries.

They use a speed drive enclosure to house a mSATA drive ... I have 4 1Tb drives ... they are USB 3 so offload very fast.

I keep hoping that TetherTools will make a dummy battery insert to allow power to the camera ...

 

[Irakly Shanidze]

On 10/5/2017 at 4:37 AM, lx1713 said:

Afraid it's no longer linked

 

http://www.artphotoa...ography-part-i/

 

http://www.artphotoa...graphy-part-ii/

Just checked, works fine

[Irakly Shanidze]

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2 hours ago, docmoore said:

Best advice is to try it ... the highest quality video from the SL is in live view ... without hitting the record button ... to an external 10 bit monitor recorder. This avoids the internal noise reduction the SL does when the record button is pushed.

So ... put your SL on a tripod activate live view and time how long the battery lasts. I think 2 hours is doable. 

An alternative to the BM or Atomos is the Video Devices PIX-E5 ... will do ProRes HQ to 30P and can be powered by AC or longlasting large Sony batteries.

They use a speed drive enclosure to house a mSATA drive ... I have 4 1Tb drives ... they are USB 3 so offload very fast.

I keep hoping that TetherTools will make a dummy battery insert to allow power to the camera ...

 

It’s a neat idea about using live view. However, there is no noise reduction applied to the footage fed through hdmi at any iso. Moreover, iso200 is usually enough for shooting a stage performance at f/4.5 and 24fps

[Guest]

That is nice to know ... David Farkas suggested that the output was better in LV ... if that is not the case I am pleased ... as the feed should be uncompressed and 

I guess unprocessed data ... 

Would love to see RAW at some point ... but iso 200 is gorgeous on the SL. Above 800 I find the noise a bit excessive but with the addition of grain

not that bad.

Guess the question is ... do I gain anything over live view through the HDMI by hitting the record button?

 

Thanks,

Bob

[LocalHero1953]

I see I can hire a BM Pocket Cinema for £60/day in the UK. I will try that as well.

[BernardC]

16 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Part of me, though, wants to try out the more advanced video cameras/recorders, as a learning exercise. 

I can't argue with that! It sounds like fun. Beware though, it's a slippery slope. Soon you will be stashing GoPros in the scenery and asking about computer hardware for multicam edits.

Don't forget sound, it's just as important as the images for almost any staged production. I always try to place a sound recorder (Zoom Hn, Marantz, Tascam, or similar) somewhere around the audio "sweet spot" and use that as the master sound track. Syncing-up this sound track with the audio track in your video is easy in most editing packages.

[Irakly Shanidze]

10 hours ago, docmoore said:

That is nice to know ... David Farkas suggested that the output was better in LV ... if that is not the case I am pleased ... as the feed should be uncompressed and 

I guess unprocessed data ... 

Would love to see RAW at some point ... but iso 200 is gorgeous on the SL. Above 800 I find the noise a bit excessive but with the addition of grain

not that bad.

Guess the question is ... do I gain anything over live view through the HDMI by hitting the record button?

 

Thanks,

Bob

What do you mean by "unprocessed"? Of course, it is processed to the point of being shown on the screen. Theoretically, there is not supposed to be any difference between the LV feed and the HDMI feed in the recording mode except for the frame size/aspect ratio. LV offers no benefit, as you can operate the camera (i.e. start/stop the recording) from the BlackMagic Video Assist 4K. The only difference is when you have an SD card(s) in the camera and do not want the footage to go there. In that case recording from LV will help circumvent that. Anyway, it sounds kinda neat, so I will play with it.

ISO800 with exposure right on via HDMI has some noise, which is easily manageable with Davinci Resolve Studio noise reduction tools. Also, it depends on a LUT used: when using an ARRI workflow, there is much less noise than when using Sony SLog that requires boosting lift at least a stop.

[Irakly Shanidze]

5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I see I can hire a BM Pocket Cinema for £60/day in the UK. I will try that as well.

Just make sure it is BMPCC 4K, not the original 1080p version.

[LocalHero1953]

It is, but not available at the moment! I suspect there may be a queue when it is available

https://www.hireacamera.com/en-gb/products/HAC00-05178-blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera-4k/

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Irakly Shanidze said:

What do you mean by "unprocessed"? 

ISO800 with exposure right on via HDMI has some noise, which is easily manageable with Davinci Resolve Studio noise reduction tools. Also, it depends on a LUT used: when using an ARRI workflow, there is much less noise than when using Sony SLog that requires boosting lift at least a stop.

Just referring to lack of internal noise reduction.

I found a couple of LUTS from Sebastien Weinmann which work well when needed ... with Davinci Resolve I tend to avoid LUTS ... color correct one clip ... grab a still ... and usually can apply it to a lot of the captures in similar light.

800 is my limit for the camera ... I just added a Nikon Z 7 which seems to have very little noise at 3200 if exposed correctly in N Log and is very amenable to matching the color

of the SL. Now if Novoflex will ship their Leica M to Z adapter so I can use all of my R lenses ... focus by wire on the native Z lenses lacks a lot to be desired.

Prefer the SL overall but at times it is easier to deal with existing light ... without adding 2 or 3 lights to the setup.

[LocalHero1953]

Posting here, as it has been the most useful thread for info...........

I've just placed an order for a Blackmagic Video Assist 4k, cables and cards. This has been triggered by a request to photograph (stills) the rehearsals and performance of a small musical theatre production. I know the team well, so I can use it as a learning space for video as well. I will use both of the TL2 and SL (using the SL and CL for stills), and TL/SL lenses. Not sure about sound yet: I can borrow a Zoom H4n to record a separate track, but I may postpone that (just record sound on camera) till I have the video workflow sorted later in the rehearsal schedule.

One factor deciding the choice of equipment has been the announcement of the Sigma fp, which looks like a good option for a video camera taking L lenses, producing similar output to the SL. I'll know better whether this is useful after I've tried the TL2 in this role.

I'll post more here as I get some practice. Any comments and advice would be welcome!

[scott kirkpatrick]

As several have mentioned, recording sound externally is key not only to quality, but to assuring continuity.  Still cameras of the previous generations, when used for video, stop every 29 minutes and have to be restarted.  They also stop if they overheat, so this has to be monitored.  The sound track is the core to any concert or performance recording.  And nice tools exist for synching up multiple views of the play with a single common soundtrack.

[LocalHero1953]

32 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

As several have mentioned, recording sound externally is key not only to quality, but to assuring continuity.  Still cameras of the previous generations, when used for video, stop every 29 minutes and have to be restarted.  They also stop if they overheat, so this has to be monitored.  The sound track is the core to any concert or performance recording.  And nice tools exist for synching up multiple views of the play with a single common soundtrack.

Thanks. I'll be recording to the BM VA so I shouldn't have a 30 min limit. I shall record sound through the camera mics during rehearsals (while I'm learning), and add in external sound when we get to rehearsals in the production venue - I hope to have several sessions there before final dress.

[tommydom]

I recorded a piano recital practice session using two microphones positioned over the instrument directly connected to the SL. The sound was very good even though I did not have a sound board to record the audio, but I feel this made the video post processing easier since I did not have to synchronize the sound from the separate source and the camera microphones. I used an Atomos unit, and recorded a single file, then edited the output in Davinci.

Good luck!

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[LocalHero1953]

A first question that I can't find an answer for by searching - the 30 minute recording limit chestnut........

I tried recording by pressing the video record button on the SL, which also triggered recording on the BM Video Assist. But the SL stopped recording just after 29 minutes, while the BM Video Assist keeps recording (but of a blank scene). However, if I press the video preview button on the SL, and then press record on the BM Video Assist, I can record beyond 30 mins.

Is this the correct process for recording longer than 30mins with the SL and an external recorder, or have I missed a setting somewhere? 

[Guest]

I always just hit live view ... preview ... and started the external recorder separately. The record limit is a non-issue when approached

this way.