BEOON advice please - functional checks prior to purchase

[Steve Ricoh]

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Having looked at my results again for various tube lengths (admittedly discontinuous, but I've tried intermediate lengths) I don't think the helicoid is the answer for my copy of the Componon - S 50mm f2.8 or the El-Nikkor 50mm f2.8. By experimentation I believe I need a shorter BEOON, but obviously this isn't going to happen.

[robert blu]

It's an old thread I know, I hope it does not disturb if I ressurect it! Curious to know if after more experience there have been positive developments.

Of course there is the reason, which is I could buy a BEOON and try to use it in conjunction with my M10.

For which I have a summicron 50 or eventually an CV Heliar 50 F2. I should have somewhere also an enlarger lens, not sure where, which lens and in which conditon. I'll look for it!

If ithe combo BEOON and M10  works I could also buy an enlarger lens, as second step after some experience.

This is because afraid soon or later my Nikon 5000 ED will die. I have not a DSLR and would not like the idea to buy one just for photo-scanning...

Thanks in advance if any update.

[ramarren]

26 minutes ago, robert blu said:

It's an old thread I know, I hope it does not disturb if I ressurect it! Curious to know if after more experience there have been positive developments.

Of course there is the reason, which is I could buy a BEOON and try to use it in conjunction with my M10.

For which I have a summicron 50 or eventually an CV Heliar 50 F2. I should have somewhere also an enlarger lens, not sure where, which lens and in which conditon. I'll look for it!

If ithe combo BEOON and M10  works I could also buy an enlarger lens, as second step after some experience.

This is because afraid soon or later my Nikon 5000 ED will die. I have not a DSLR and would not like the idea to buy one just for photo-scanning...

Thanks in advance if any update.

You don't need an enlarging lens if you have a Summicron 50 or Helier 50 mm. The standard 50mm lens is the lens that the BEOON was optimized/designed to be used with. It will work beautifully with the M10, and you can use Live View (with or without the EVF) for focusing directly on the sensor rather than needing the focusing magnifier. 

The BEOON is a limited solution ... It is specially set up for a tight range of magnifications with the 50mm lens using its provided extension tubes and adapters. It handles from 35mm to 6x9cm format film beautifully. You can also do flat art capture up to about that sizing; lighting it properly is a little fiddly. I've been able to shoehorn up to the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm into use with the BEOON too, giving up some magnification, but so far have been unsuccessful at getting a 43 mm lens to work well. Having a lens with its own focusing helicoid allows fine tuning the magnification and focus further than is possible with an enlarging lens and the post helicoid. But frankly, the Color Skopar 50mm or Summicron-M 50mm set to f/11 is nearly perfect. 

Get a flat panel light box to use as an illumination source: very little heat, much more even illumination than most old style incandescent light boxes.

G

[Steve Ricoh]

And further to ramarren’s very useful post above, when using a light source larger than the negative mask I always mask around the base to help prevent stray light entering the lens.

[Doug A]

5 hours ago, Steve Ricoh said:

And further to ramarren’s very useful post above, when using a light source larger than the negative mask I always mask around the base to help prevent stray light entering the lens.

I briefly tried a paper mask on the light box surface but found it interfered with sliding the strip of 35mm negatives through the cutouts in the base and under the mask opening. Using tape instead of paper might have worked better but I didn't want to risk leaving a residue on the glass.

[plasticman]

Is anyone seeing a real and measurable advantage to using the BEON instead of a dedicated Kaiser (or similar) camera-scanning stand? I've seen a couple of BEOONs on local auctions and auction sites over the last couple of years - on one occasion going for not much money, and I admit I was tempted to get it just because it's so talked-up on this forum (even though I don't have a digital M). But the setup I saw at the lab I go to (with a Kaiser stand, lightbox and clamped DSLR) just seemed vastly superior, so I decided to pass. I thought the BEOON hysteria was over these days, but now I wonder if I should've snapped it up again?

[ramarren]

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4 minutes ago, plasticman said:

Is anyone seeing a real and measurable advantage to using the BEON instead of a dedicated Kaiser (or similar) camera-scanning stand? I've seen a couple of BEOONs on local auctions and auction sites over the last couple of years - on one occasion going for not much money, and I admit I was tempted to get it just because it's so talked-up on this forum (even though I don't have a digital M). But the setup I saw at the lab I go to (with a Kaiser stand, lightbox and clamped DSLR) just seemed vastly superior, so I decided to pass. I thought the BEOON hysteria was over these days, but now I wonder if I should've snapped it up again?

The major reason to use a BEOON, if you have the appropriate camera and lens hardware that it supports, is that it is a very compact, very rigid way of doing this job. I haven't seen a Kaiser or other copy stand that was similarly dedicated and made as well. All three of the previous copy stands I owned were "okay" in terms of build quality and did the job, the BEOON is far better made than any of them. (I finally bought the Novoflex Magic Copy Stand and now have a general purpose copy stand of similar quality.) 

The other things about the BEOON is that it is perhaps the ONLY copy stand support that works just as well with a Leica M rangefinder camera as it does with an EVF camera that supports TTL viewing due to its focusing magnifier, and that it's a complete system with all the required extension tubes, film masks, etc, included to do the job. I haven't found any other stand that includes all that's needs as a single package ... On the other hand, since I happened onto the BEOON a while back, I haven't looked for one since the BEOON (and now my Novoflex copy setup) provides all I need. The rise of high resolution, interchangeable lens digital cameras has made a lot more fixtures and accessories of this kind practical and sensible ... the BEOON is an ancient piece of hardware by today's standards. 

The nice thing that I appreciate about the BEOON as a working tool is that it takes up little space when not in use and sets up for use in just a minute or two. 

Whether the things I've just mentioned are a "real and measurable advantage" ... well, I don't know what metric to use to measure them by. It's a good tool, a niche use tool, with a specific camera setup and equipment that it supports best. Taken for what it is and what it was designed to do, it's a very good tool. The fact that other tools might be as good or better, at lower cost, for other equipment today is something that every individual photographer needs to assess for their specific use situation. 

G

[plasticman]

54 minutes ago, ramarren said:

The major reason to use a BEOON, if you have the appropriate camera and lens hardware that it supports, is that it is a very compact, very rigid way of doing this job. I haven't seen a Kaiser or other copy stand that was similarly dedicated and made as well. All three of the previous copy stands I owned were "okay" in terms of build quality and did the job, the BEOON is far better made than any of them. (I finally bought the Novoflex Magic Copy Stand and now have a general purpose copy stand of similar quality.) 

The other things about the BEOON is that it is perhaps the ONLY copy stand support that works just as well with a Leica M rangefinder camera as it does with an EVF camera that supports TTL viewing due to its focusing magnifier, and that it's a complete system with all the required extension tubes, film masks, etc, included to do the job. I haven't found any other stand that includes all that's needs as a single package ... On the other hand, since I happened onto the BEOON a while back, I haven't looked for one since the BEOON (and now my Novoflex copy setup) provides all I need. The rise of high resolution, interchangeable lens digital cameras has made a lot more fixtures and accessories of this kind practical and sensible ... the BEOON is an ancient piece of hardware by today's standards. 

The nice thing that I appreciate about the BEOON as a working tool is that it takes up little space when not in use and sets up for use in just a minute or two. 

Whether the things I've just mentioned are a "real and measurable advantage" ... well, I don't know what metric to use to measure them by. It's a good tool, a niche use tool, with a specific camera setup and equipment that it supports best. Taken for what it is and what it was designed to do, it's a very good tool. The fact that other tools might be as good or better, at lower cost, for other equipment today is something that every individual photographer needs to assess for their specific use situation. 

G

OK thanks. 

Don't get me wrong - I'm as much a Leica-snob as anyone here and have Leica cameras, lenses, binoculars and if they made refrigerators I'd probably have one of those too. But when I see "Scanned on a BEOON" (as I often do) it seems as relevant (and unnecessarily elitist) as if people wrote "Scanned with a Coolscan standing on a Louis XIV bureau".

Anyway, next time I see one selling locally I might give it a try. There was one about a year ago that went for just a couple thousand SEK (about $200) - but like I said, I thought the hysteria had died down.

The copy-stand I'd seen looked like this - obviously not so easy to pack away in a drawer:

http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkte/2_1_produktanzeige.asp?nr=5612

[robert blu]

First Thanks G for your informative and  useful comments.

I'll try the BEOON way to digitise my films as alternative to my scanner. One of the reason is that it is a small and compact tool and I start to have "available space" problems and this would make camera stand less comfortable to use. Second reason as I alredy mentioned is my main digital camera is an M10 and I'm not ready to buy a DSLR only for this job.

Busy with other priorities in these days but I'll report about my experiences here.

Anyway since I have the M10 i do not shoot much film, only a couple of projetc (one interrupted by the covid emergency) to finish where i like to keep the same aesthetic. And yes, sometimes I like just to use my old cameras!

[norm_snyder]

I am still enthusiastic about using the BEOON after several years, beginning with my M9 [you would need the chimney magnifier attachment that was part of the set originally to use with a camera without live-view], and now with my M10.  It really is useful and easy with the M10, using the live view and magnification available.  I also have the Visoflex 020 EVF, and this allows me to do this while seated, since the finder tilts, and with the camera mounted on the BEOON, I no longer have to get up to peer down at the display on the camera's back.  Recently, I haven't bothered with a cable release, simply setting the camera for a 2s delay on the self timer, which seems to be enough for any vibration to dampen after depressing the shutter.  You can also set automatic bracketing, if you like, allowing some ways to deal with excessively contrasty negatives or transparencies.

Recently, I tried using this setup in combination with Leica's FOTOS app, on my iPad, which gives me a 10" diagonal display to use, as well as magnification, and while I don't find the app to be perfect, it does lend another option.

For lenses, I use my 50mm Summicron, but also have been using a 50mm f2.8 APO-Rodagon enlarging lens, which requires the addition of an extension tube 17657X, which I believe was originally supplied or used with some of the Leitz Focotar enlarging lenses.  This setup also gets me to 1:1 and may be slightly better in the corners stopped down to f5.6, which seems to accommodate any residual film curvature.

I leave mine set up in a corner of my workspace, with a dustcover over it and my lightbox and it takes up hardly any room.  I agree with remarren as to it's utility and simplicity.

 

[ramarren]

8 hours ago, plasticman said:

OK thanks. 

Don't get me wrong - I'm as much a Leica-snob as anyone here and have Leica cameras, lenses, binoculars and if they made refrigerators I'd probably have one of those too. But when I see "Scanned on a BEOON" (as I often do) it seems as relevant (and unnecessarily elitist) as if people wrote "Scanned with a Coolscan standing on a Louis XIV bureau".

Anyway, next time I see one selling locally I might give it a try. There was one about a year ago that went for just a couple thousand SEK (about $200) - but like I said, I thought the hysteria had died down.

The copy-stand I'd seen looked like this - obviously not so easy to pack away in a drawer:

http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkte/2_1_produktanzeige.asp?nr=5612

I don't know that one needs to be a "Leica-snob" to see that a device they made is well done and has good value for its intended and specific uses.

Yes, the general purpose full-size Kaiser copy stand like that one looks like it's pretty robust ... But I have absolutely no space for a device like that (which works fine when you have a nice, big workroom to fit it into...). The BEOON (and the Novoflex Magic Stand) both pack down into a very small space that fits in my cabinet, and sets up very quickly onto my work table. 

G

[Guest Nowhereman]

8 hours ago, robert blu said:

...I'll try the BEOON way to digitise my films...

Robert - I initially used the BEOON with the DR Summicron-50. That was fine, but then I picked up a Focotar II in perfect condition and at a good price. The Focotar has a flat field and is somewhat better in the corners than the DR Summicron. For my photography I am happy with either lens. I use my M10 with the Visoflex 020 with focus peaking or simply the enlarged view.
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[plasticman]

4 hours ago, ramarren said:

I don't know that one needs to be a "Leica-snob" to see that a device they made is well done and has good value for its intended and specific uses.

Oh sorry you misunderstood my 'snobbery' comment - I didn't mean the object itself (which I'm sure is as well-made, solid and a joy to use as other Leica equipment), I meant the ridiculous "BEOON scan" label that people often attach to their digital photographs of film negatives. 

I doubt anyone ever writes "Kaiser RS1 scan" when posting an image - and so the only reason must be the perceived cachet of owning a BEOON. 

Yesterday I was chatting with a friend about the badger and flock of deer that I saw on the lawn - but if I'd said "the badger I saw through my exclusive Leica Trinovid 8x20 binoculars and the flock of deer which I also saw through my exclusive Leica Trinovid 8x20 binoculars" then he would pretty quickly come to the conclusion that I was a hopeless buffoon.

But none of this is contributing constructively to the discussion. I'm just gonna put a watch on 'BEOON' on my local auction sites and see if any bargains turn up.

[ramarren]

54 minutes ago, plasticman said:

Oh sorry you misunderstood my 'snobbery' comment - I didn't mean the object itself (which I'm sure is as well-made, solid and a joy to use as other Leica equipment), I meant the ridiculous "BEOON scan" label that people often attach to their digital photographs of film negatives. ... 

No problem, I understand.  

G

[250swb]

I really can't see the advantage of a BEOON over a conventional copy stand. Sure the BEOON is very well made and rigid, but the problem is vibration when firing the shutter and whether its a copy stand or BEOON the solution to that is using a cable release or preferably the cameras self timer. A copy stand matches a BEOON in every respect and is more useful in others, like if you have more than one film format to scan.

[wlaidlaw]

The Focotar's are IMHO all fairly old, usually heavily used and over-priced. They are also quite a slow lens, which has an impact on focus accuracy. I focus at f2.8, then image at f5.6 which Schneider say is the optimum resolution aperture for my Componon. My choice is the excellent Schneider-Kreuznach 50mm/f2.8 Componon S. The later green stripe lens is marginally better than the earlier version but costs about 30% more. For the ultimate quality a Rodenstock APO-Rodagon 50/2.8 is probably the best lens that money can buy, on the BEOON but they cost about 4 to 5 times as much as the Componon S and for a tiny improvement, I did not feel the extra cost was worth the money. Both of these lenses are M39 x 26tpi mounts and they are designed as dual purpose for both enlarging and reprographics. If you do some serious Googling, you should come across a very detailed comparative test of lots of different lenses for reprographics and enlarging. The two top lenses were the APO Rodagon and the Componon S. 

For mounted slides I use a wholly different set up - see here. 

Wilson

 

[ramarren]

4 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I really can't see the advantage of a BEOON over a conventional copy stand. Sure the BEOON is very well made and rigid, but the problem is vibration when firing the shutter and whether its a copy stand or BEOON the solution to that is using a cable release or preferably the cameras self timer. A copy stand matches a BEOON in every respect and is more useful in others, like if you have more than one film format to scan.

Simply stated, the advantages are that it is a dedicated piece of equipment for a specific job, and that it stores in a small box. Most copy stands are general purpose use sorts of equipment and take up a lot of space when not in use. If these advantages have no value for you, sure: the BEOON shouldn't be of much interest.

(The BEOON handles 1:1 to 1:3 magnifications, so it can be used for more than one film format just like a general purpose copy stand.)

It may seem like I'm pushing the BEOON ... I'm not. I use my Novoflex copy stand much more now because it is general purpose and my needs span more than what the BEOON is designed for. I'm simply answering questions about the BEOON because I've used it a fair bit.  

[wlaidlaw]

I think the main advantage of the BEOON is speed of scanning. It takes me around 5 minutes to get everything set up, usually with my SL601 camera. I can then scan a 36 exposure film in 6 image strips to 36 perfect focus DNG's in around 2 to 3 minutes. This is miles faster than any film scanner will do the job. It is less convenient for mounted slides which is why I use the Novoflex set up. 

Wilson

[250swb]

31 minutes ago, ramarren said:

Simply stated, the advantages are that it is a dedicated piece of equipment for a specific job, and that it stores in a small box. Most copy stands are general purpose use sorts of equipment and take up a lot of space when not in use. If these advantages have no value for you, sure: the BEOON shouldn't be of much interest.

(The BEOON handles 1:1 to 1:3 magnifications, so it can be used for more than one film format just like a general purpose copy stand.)

It may seem like I'm pushing the BEOON ... I'm not. I use my Novoflex copy stand much more now because it is general purpose and my needs span more than what the BEOON is designed for. I'm simply answering questions about the BEOON because I've used it a fair bit.  

I know what you have in mind when you say copy stands are big, it was my impression as well having used many over the years. But you can get very small copy stands online for not much money (mine was £30) and the perfect size to take a 12x8 light pad and with plenty of adjustment for 35mm and 120 scans

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[Doug A]

One benefit of the Fuji X-T20 I use for digitizing my negatives is the electronic shutter. It has no moving parts, so no vibration. Combined with the Fujifilm Cam Remote app on my iPhone it makes the whole process completely vibration free and very very fast.