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BEOON advice please - functional checks prior to purchase


Steve Ricoh

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Guest Nowhereman

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Avatar - Yes, it just occurred to me why you're net getting sharp focus with your Summitar: it's an LTM lens and, according the BEOON manual, you have to mount it on the Bayonet Adapter Ring and the mount that assembly on the A extension tube (bayonet to bayonet). But the problem is that you're already using the Bayonet Adapter Ring to mount your M240 on the BEOON. (For LTM cameras the BEOON is designed for the LTM lens to be mounted as just described and then the LTM camera is mounted on top of the BEOON directly to the LTM-mount. That is to say that you'd have to get another Bayonet Adapter Ring to use your M240 with the Summitar. But it makes more sense to wait until you have your enlarger lens and follow the BEOON instructions for the setup with M-mount cameras.

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Thank you Nowhereman. I had to google what an LTM lens is!

 

Not sure about what it all means as the Summarit is the same mount as all my other lenses and does connect perfectly with the adaptors on the Beoon.

 

One thing I tried before I gave up, was flipping the 1:1 Mask and laying the negative on that, which raised the negative from the light panel about 1/2". For whatever reason, doing this allows more latitude in the focusing.

 

I have not yet devised a way to really nail focus, other than putting a piece of paper with text and focusing on that.

 

I look forward to the enlarger lens and hope to have it early next week!

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Avatar - it's better to focus on the film itself: paper would most likely have a different thickness. Also, when you change film type, from, say, negative to slide film, you need to refocus because slide film is thicker than negative film. If you use Live View with magnification you should have no trouble in focusing on a film frame that you know has something in focus; you can also move the film around and check focus on the film name lettering on the side of the film.

 

Most likely you have been having problems focusing because the set up with your LTM Summitar doesn't have the correct spacing for the 1:1 mask. Once you have your enlarger lens and use it with the B+C+D spacing rings, I'm sure you won't have any problems. Even with cameras that don't have Live View, like the M9 and MM, I didn't have a problem hitting correct focus using the BEOON loupe and then mounting the camera. Actually, anyone with experience in manually focusing enlargers, would find it easy.

 

Ideally it would be good to have the type of negative that used to be sold for focusing enlargers. I have one somewhere but can't find it. I've been using the image below, which has the word "SINGER" on the sewing machine in sharp focus. The Focus Peaking on the M10 makes the lettering shimmer when I hit focus. (Taken in Accra in 1976 with an M3 and a Summicron 50 lens on Agfa Scala film).

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Thank you Nowhereman. I had to google what an LTM lens is!

 

Not sure about what it all means as the Summarit is the same mount as all my other lenses and does connect perfectly with the adaptors on the Beoon.

 

One thing I tried before I gave up, was flipping the 1:1 Mask and laying the negative on that, which raised the negative from the light panel about 1/2". For whatever reason, doing this allows more latitude in the focusing.

 

I have not yet devised a way to really nail focus, other than putting a piece of paper with text and focusing on that.

 

I look forward to the enlarger lens and hope to have it early next week!

The Summarit is an M mount lens, and as such, should be mounted on the A ring which is an M mount to M39 adapter. This will then screw into the Beoon Tubes as needed for the correct magnification, and which in turn will screw into the Beoon. You should leave the mask in it's correct position with the negative slid underneath between the mask and the lightbox. Emulsion side up. Focus the lens to infinity, open it up wide and use the Beoon column to establish focus (using live view). Lock the Beoon column. Do not adjust the lens focusing. Leave it at infinity. When satisfied stop the lens down to f8 or f11 (test which is best). Use the cameras native base ISO and auto exposure. Use the self timer to avoid camera shake. Then shoot.

 

Hope this helps

 

Take a look here https://www.flickr.com/photos/118415917@N06/albums/72157683377993664 for examples of a 50mm DR lens and a 50mm enlarger lens.

Edited by Reeray
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The Summarit is an M mount lens, and as such, should be mounted on the A ring which is an M mount to M39 adapter. This will then screw into the Beoon Tubes as needed for the correct magnification, and which in turn will screw into the Beoon. You should leave the mask in it's correct position with the negative slid underneath between the mask and the lightbox. Emulsion side up. Focus the lens to infinity, open it up wide and use the Beoon column to establish focus (using live view). Lock the Beoon column. Do not adjust the lens focusing. Leave it at infinity. When satisfied stop the lens down to f8 or f11 (test which is best). Use the cameras native base ISO and auto exposure. Use the self timer to avoid camera shake. Then shoot.

 

Hope this helps

 

Take a look here https://www.flickr.com/photos/118415917@N06/albums/72157683377993664 for examples of a 50mm DR lens and a 50mm enlarger lens.

 

Thank you for the detailed suggestions!

 

I've done pretty much all of that and for whatever reason, it's not possible with my lens to get focus set up as suggested. The last thing I did before giving up was to flip the mask over so that the negative is about 1/2" closer to the lens and for whatever reason worked. But I have an enlarger lens on the way and am expecting that to be better anyways. Which enlarger lens are you using?

 

I took a look at your link. Great examples! Thank you for sharing them!

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Thank you Nowhereman. I had to google what an LTM lens is!

 

Not sure about what it all means as the Summarit is the same mount as all my other lenses and does connect perfectly with the adaptors on the Beoon.

 

One thing I tried before I gave up, was flipping the 1:1 Mask and laying the negative on that, which raised the negative from the light panel about 1/2". For whatever reason, doing this allows more latitude in the focusing.

 

I have not yet devised a way to really nail focus, other than putting a piece of paper with text and focusing on that.

 

I look forward to the enlarger lens and hope to have it early next week!

Do you have the magnifier which is part of a complete BEOON? It's a vaguely funnel-shaped thing and it's shown in the figure in post #9 (https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/276151-beoon-advice-please-functional-checks-prior-to-purchase/?do=findComment&comment=3345741). It has a "ground glass" (actually a bit of plastic) within, a magnifying glass on top and is used to focus the device. The ground glass is a small distance above the socket for the camera as it has to be in the same position as the sensor or film will be when the camera is attached.

 

As you most likely know, focus is achieved by adjusting the distance between the sensor and the lens as well as the distance between the lens and the object. In normal use, you focus a Leica M by moving the lens alone while keeping both the sensor and the object in place. This is not ideal for close-up work where you ideally set the distance of the lens from the sensor to adjust the magnification factor and then move the camera with the lens closer to or farther away from the object.

 

In BEOON terms, this amounts to:

 

  • Attach the prescribed number of rings to the BEOON. As you want to make copies of 35mm slides, the image will be at a scale of 1:1; hence, the total length of the rings and adapters on both sides of the rings will have to amount to 50mm (the focal length of the lens).
  • Attach the lens (the 50mm summarit) to the BEOON. Set it to infinity.
  • Do not attach the camera to the BEOON just now.
  • Coarsely adjust the height of the BEOON stand to the 1:1 position.
  • Using the magnifier, increase or decrease the height of the stand until the image on the ground glass is in focus. Mount the camera on the device and start shooting.
  • With a digital camera, you can, of course, mount the camera for focusing and magnify the live view picture. Leave the lens set to infinity and adjust by raising and lowering the stand in this case, too.

When using a phone or tablet PC for illumination, be sure to leave a good distance between the screen and the negative to be photographed. All LCD displays are rasters or grids, and you don't want the grid to show on your photograph. You can see the grid rather easily by looking at the display with a magnifying glass (such as your lens).

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@Ray: I've tried the link but it doesn't work. Did you remove the pictures?

 

The link works for me. Just tried it again. https://www.flickr.com/photos/118415917@N06/sets/72157683377993664

 

 

Do you have the magnifier which is part of a complete BEOON? It's a vaguely funnel-shaped thing and it's shown in the figure in post #9 (https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/276151-beoon-advice-please-functional-checks-prior-to-purchase/?do=findComment&comment=3345741). It has a "ground glass" (actually a bit of plastic) within, a magnifying glass on top and is used to focus the device. The ground glass is a small distance above the socket for the camera as it has to be in the same position as the sensor or film will be when the camera is attached.

 

As you most likely know, focus is achieved by adjusting the distance between the sensor and the lens as well as the distance between the lens and the object. In normal use, you focus a Leica M by moving the lens alone while keeping both the sensor and the object in place. This is not ideal for close-up work where you ideally set the distance of the lens from the sensor to adjust the magnification factor and then move the camera with the lens closer to or farther away from the object.

 

In BEOON terms, this amounts to:

 

  • Attach the prescribed number of rings to the BEOON. As you want to make copies of 35mm slides, the image will be at a scale of 1:1; hence, the total length of the rings and adapters on both sides of the rings will have to amount to 50mm (the focal length of the lens).
  • Attach the lens (the 50mm summarit) to the BEOON. Set it to infinity.
  • Do not attach the camera to the BEOON just now.
  • Coarsely adjust the height of the BEOON stand to the 1:1 position.
  • Using the magnifier, increase or decrease the height of the stand until the image on the ground glass is in focus. Mount the camera on the device and start shooting.
  • With a digital camera, you can, of course, mount the camera for focusing and magnify the live view picture. Leave the lens set to infinity and adjust by raising and lowering the stand in this case, too.

When using a phone or tablet PC for illumination, be sure to leave a good distance between the screen and the negative to be photographed. All LCD displays are rasters or grids, and you don't want the grid to show on your photograph. You can see the grid rather easily by looking at the display with a magnifying glass (such as your lens).

 

I bought an lcd panel but I did learn that indeed, an iPad will produce a cross hatch pattern when the negative is placed right on top of it.

 

It does seem unlikely that I can't achieve crisp focus on account of my Summarit and although I don't plan on ultimately using this lens, I am curious and will give it another try as you suggest.

 

Thank you for the detailed post. Very appreciated.

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Guest Nowhereman

Avatar - Sorry for the confusion: at some point I thought you were using the Summitar, an LTM lens. If it is the Summarit, an M-mount lens, you should not be having a focussing problem if you're mounting it with the A + D rings as shown in the BEOON manual — unless you're not setting it to infinity when taking the exposure. 

 

There should be no need for using the BEOON focusing loupe if you're using the M240 Live View with focusing magnification and focus peaking. While the focussing with the loupe works perfectly well when you need to use it with a camera that doesn't have Live View, like the M9 and MM, using Live View makes focussing easier.

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Avatar - Sorry for the confusion: at some point I thought you were using the Summitar, an LTM lens. If it is the Summarit, an M-mount lens, you should not be having a focussing problem if you're mounting it with the A + D rings as shown in the BEOON manual — unless you're not setting it to infinity when taking the exposure. 

 

There should be no need for using the BEOON focusing loupe if you're using the M240 Live View with focusing magnification and focus peaking. While the focussing with the loupe works perfectly well when you need to use it with a camera that doesn't have Live View, like the M9 and MM, using Live View makes focussing easier.

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Ah that explains it. It's a modern Summarit.

 

I am using an M246 with Live View and I also didn't think using the loupe would or could make a difference.

 

I have two enlarger lens en route to try, so I am not going to keep knocking my head against the wall. It's pretty simple and not really much I could be doing wrong (famous last words!) but I can't achieve crisp focus unless I either flip the mask over, moving the negative closer to the lens or change tube configuration and crop, which of course I shouldn't have to do.

 

It's academic at this point but I am encouraged by what I was able to get even without the ideal set up.

 

Thank you for the helpful PM's we've exchanged. I am also relieved I don't have to look or invent a way to advance the negatives. It will be a joy once it's working to be able to rather quickly take the shots with my M246. Wish I had kept my M240, if for nothing else to use for the 1-2K color slides I have!

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Having both a Summarit-M (1:2.5) and a BEOON, I just tried to achieve focus at the 1:1 setting. It doesn't work; the BEOON is too tall. It works perfectly with 1:2.8 50mm Elmar.

 

This is, of course, only possible if the focal lengths don't match. The Summarit has - according to the technical data - a focal length of 50.1mm, the Elmar's appears to be 51.6mm. 

 

I can achieve focus with the Summarit either by raising the negative above the level of the BEOON's foot or by using the rings A+C instead of A+D. In any event, the scale of the reproduction is questionable if the focal length is not exactly right. At a guess, the Summarit captures an area of 34x22mm with when set to infinity and with the rings A+D.

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Having both a Summarit-M (1:2.5) and a BEOON, I just tried to achieve focus at the 1:1 setting. It doesn't work; the BEOON is too tall. It works perfectly with 1:2.8 50mm Elmar.

 

This is, of course, only possible if the focal lengths don't match. The Summarit has - according to the technical data - a focal length of 50.1mm, the Elmar's appears to be 51.6mm.

 

I can achieve focus with the Summarit either by raising the negative above the level of the BEOON's foot or by using the rings A+C instead of A+D. In any event, the scale of the reproduction is questionable if the focal length is not exactly right. At a guess, the Summarit captures an area of 34x22mm with when set to infinity and with the rings A+D.

Based on enlarger lens recommendations, I've purchased an El-Nikkor 50mm f/2.8, but reading the data sheet the focal length is quoted as being 52.00mm (I've not tried with my M240 as im awaiting delivery of a light pad). I'm not sure I'm following the reasons why the Summatit-M FL 50.1 is not focusing on the target, but works perfectly with the Elmar having a FL of 51.6. One way of reading this suggests the BEOON works best with a slightly longer FL than 50mm, suggesting I might be ok with the 52mm Nikkor.

Must admit I'm a bit confused now.

Edited by Steve Ricoh
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Having both a Summarit-M (1:2.5) and a BEOON, I just tried to achieve focus at the 1:1 setting. It doesn't work; the BEOON is too tall. It works perfectly with 1:2.8 50mm Elmar.

 

This is, of course, only possible if the focal lengths don't match. The Summarit has - according to the technical data - a focal length of 50.1mm, the Elmar's appears to be 51.6mm. 

 

I can achieve focus with the Summarit either by raising the negative above the level of the BEOON's foot or by using the rings A+C instead of A+D. In any event, the scale of the reproduction is questionable if the focal length is not exactly right. At a guess, the Summarit captures an area of 34x22mm with when set to infinity and with the rings A+D.

 

Thank you for testing that Pops, you're the best!

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May I suggest that it's not the real focal length, but the big difference of physical lengths of Summarit-M 2.5/50 that is some mm shorter than Elmar 50mm.

So as is the distance from front of lens is some millimeters nearer in case of Elmar.

 

That's why the Beoon is too tall for 1:1 with Summarit-M.

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For those interested in a less expensive solution to the BEOON..

Sometimes the Valoy-2 can be had for less than $50- bux..

And the copy stand attachment less than that..although harder to find..

You will need some 39mm ext tubes too if you use an enlarging lens..DOORX works great for larger than 35mm film formats..

Shown is a 5x7 neg w/Valoy and Sony..so the advantage over the BEOON here is you can do LF too and have the Valoy enlarger for 35mm if needed for wet darkroom work..

This 5x7 neg required 1 DOORX and a ring B from the BEOON...8x10 will need an extra DOORX..but you can use 39mm filters w/o the glass inside stacked up to the exact specs you need..if you already have them...

But if you have a close to 50mm macro lens..and aren't fussy about the corners..that will work fine and not have to worry about an exact fit..my Leica R 60mm macro works fine...and if you center the neg with border..the corners are less of a concern..

Casez6o.jpg

Edited by tsleica
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I've got a bit of a hang up using my $8,000 M240 for film scanning, so I don't. Instead I use my cheaper cropped sensor cameras. Plus they have flip up LCD and live view.

 

One thing I established using an APS-C camera with my Beoon is that the extension tubes are the key issue. The 3/4 that come with the Beoon are insufficient (in my case) and I sourced a further amount (ebay) of varying lengths. I now have a further 8 tubes at a cost of $30. As such, I can now literally use any M lens, most configurations achieving 100% sensor cover with a few exceptions providing c.90/95% coverage. The later merely require slight cropping or up-sizing in Photoshop. All achieve accurate focus. I also use a micro 4/3rds camera and achieve similar success.

 

Caveat. You need the patience of Job sorting the tube configurations !

Edited by Reeray
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Guest Nowhereman

I've got a bit of a hang up using my $8,000 M240 for film scanning, so I don't. Instead I use my cheaper cropped sensor cameras. Plus they have flip up LCD and live view....

 

Don't understand your hangup, considering that you have the M240 and it works more simply and better — 100% of the frame with the 1:1 mask — than the cropped sensor camera that you are using.

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I do actually get 100% with the 1:1 mask and an APS-C and micro 4/3rds with a 50mm Componon S.

 

which aps-c sensor camera are you using? If this works as I expect, I'm fine w the M246 for black and white but since I sold my M240, I'd be interested in a not so expensive alternative. 

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