Blackstone in talks to sell stake in Leica

[luigi bertolotti]

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I have found the correct link for Leica-Camera AG's accounts as far as my German goes it looks like for the period to 31.Mar.2106 there was a gross operating profit of €38,409,747 which is a far rosier picture. 

 

Wilson

Uh... seems to me to have identified these figures (2016 and 2015 - consolidated Group Balance)

 

Revenue no bad trend : 406,6 vs 364,8 M€ year to year

 

17. Ergebnis der gewöhnlichen Geschäftstätigkeit   21.935   4.119

18. Steuern vom Einkommen und vom Ertrag   -11.024   -13.844

19. Jahresüberschuss/-fehlbetrag   10.911   -9.723

20. Minderheitenanteil am Jahresüberschuss/-fehlbetrag   -11.377   -98

21. Konzernanteil am Jahresüberschuss/-fehlbetrag   -466   -9.820

22. Jahresverlust/-gewinn   -466   -9.820

 

Round : 22M€ operating margin  , 11M€ taxes, 11M€ net profit but  #20 brings at the end to a net loss (very small)  

 

item #20 isn't so easy to interpret... in Italian plain (and re-traslated) could be equivalent to "Quote of gain/loss related to miniorites"... it is used in concerns where there are internal pacts between shareholders about the sharing of profit/loss which doesn't reflect the number of shares of each partner... (it's legal in not publicly traded companies) .. maybe is related to some specific pacts between Blackstone and Kaufmann...

Edited August 4, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

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[willeica]

It's just a question of an adapter  - already available from e.g. Novoflex. The M+Otus combo is about as unbalanced as it can be. No surprise there... 

 

You must be joking. I leave the monster lenses to those masochists that use the SL!

 

William

[UliWer]

Yes, Luigi's Interpretation of #20 seems to be right.

[gyoung]

There wont be an M11 then, Contax D2?

 

G.

Edited August 4, 2017 by gyoung

[erlingmm]

What about Huawei? Now that DJI owns Hasselblad?

And they have a strong cooperation on camera phones...

[willeica]

Uh... seems to me to have identified these figures (2016 and 2015)

 

Revenue no bad trend : 406,6 vs 364,8 M€ year to year

 

17. Ergebnis der gewöhnlichen Geschäftstätigkeit   21.935   4.119

18. Steuern vom Einkommen und vom Ertrag   -11.024   -13.844

19. Jahresüberschuss/-fehlbetrag   10.911   -9.723

20. Minderheitenanteil am Jahresüberschuss/-fehlbetrag   -11.377   -98

21. Konzernanteil am Jahresüberschuss/-fehlbetrag   -466   -9.820

22. Jahresverlust/-gewinn   -466   -9.820

 

Round : 22M€ operating margin  , 11M€ taxes, 11M€ net profit but  #20 brings at the end to a net loss (very small)  

 

item #20 isn't so easy to interpret... in Italian plain (and re-traslated) could be equivalent to "Quote of gain/loss related to miniorites"... it is used in concerns where there are internal pacts between shareholders about the sharing of profit/loss which doesn't reflect the number of shares of each partner... (it's legal in not publicly traded companies) .. maybe is related to some specific pacts between Blackstone and Kaufmann...

 

I have seen such features in acquisition and shareholders' agreements. This relates to minority interests but as the company is private it is difficult to say precisely how this particular apportionment was made. Blackstone will have had some kind of an 'earn out' for staying in, but as they took an equity position the valuation of their holding might also take a hit. That will only be tested when they come to the market. It may be possible to do some kind of an analysis after the transaction goes through. As Jaap said earlier, there will be a full disclosure of details, subject to NDA, and probably a data room for potential investors. I have been involved in several large acquisitions myself in the telecoms sector and the processes can be quite exhaustive with final meetings to wrap up the deal lasting well beyond midnight on the final day. From our point of view as Leica users we have to hope that whoever comes in to fill Blackstone's shoes has the best interests of the company at heart. Dr Kaufmann certainly appeared to be very happy with the deal he had with Blackstone.

 

William

[wlaidlaw]

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We have seen these "special items or special dividends frequently on P.Eq./Venture Capital owned companies. For example CVC who owned Formula One, prior to its sale to Liberty, used to borrow huge amounts of money secured on future revenues and pay themselves equally humungous special dividends, unrelated to the actual operating profits, thereby saddling the operation with very large debts. 

 

Wilson

[UliWer]

I fear I caused a lot of confusion by my link to the "Bundesanzeiger"  

 

Looking again at the numbers quoted by Luigi i see that they don't come from the annual report of the Leica Camera AG but they are the "consolidated financial statement" set up by ACM (aka "Kaufmann") who are the "parent group" for Leica (Befreiender Konzernabschluss gem. § 291 HGB zum Geschäftsjahr vom 01.04.2015 bis zum 31.03.2016 dating from 22.02.2017)

 

Besides Leica Camera AG Kaufmann’s ACM owns VIAOPTIC GmbH and Uwe Weller Feinwerktechnik GmbH. Those other enterprises also work for the Leica production but not exclusively so. Both are also at the Leitz Park in Wetzlar, which in itself is owned by Kaufmann. So the data given in this report apply to a lot more than the Leica Camera AG., but they are only the consolidated data on the level of the parent company. In this report the Blackstone share of the Leica Camera AG appears as a „loss“.

 

To get the annual report for the Leica Camera AG you have to look at the document „Jahresabschluss zum Geschäftsjahr vom 01.04.2015 bis zum 31.03.2016“ from 23.01.2017.

 

The profit and loss statement from this report says

                                                                              2015/16                2014/15

1. Umsatzerlöse (turnover)                                       294.453.074,15     276.433.176,92

 

 

 

13. Ergebnis der gewöhnlichen Geschäftstätigkeit

(operating margin)                                                      38.409.747,09       13.516.508,12

14. Steuern vom Einkommen und vom Ertrag                   4.595.931,53        5.668.722,85

(taxes on margin)

15. Sonstige Steuern (other taxes)                                       34.137,17             19.834,46     

16. Aufgrund eines Gewinnabführungsvertrages

abgeführte Gewinne

(payments according to profit transfer agreement)         33.779.678,39         7.827.950,81

Edited August 4, 2017 by UliWer

[rockgod123]

This is Dr. Martin Folb from Los Angeles. I was a long time Leica user starting in college, and eventually entered the International Salons with over 5000 acceptances and 1000 medals. This included 15 of the prestigious Charles A. Kinsley Memorial Trophies presented by Eastman Kodak at the PSA (Photographic Society of America) International Salon. I often gave a rather spectacular slide show for the Leica Seminars and knew and worked with Walter Heun. I was fortunate enough to win First Prize in the 1980 Leica "OLYMPIAD OF COLOR PHOTOGRAPHY".　

　

I give this information so as to indicate that I was a very serious Leica devotee and used the Leicaflex SL, R3 and R8 cameras. Serious photographers that were doing nature, sports or macro-photography never really embraced rangefinder cameras because of their limited abilities in these areas. To be honest, I am surprised that Leica even still exists as a company, and I am not surprised that Blackstone wants out. Leica began marketing their NAME with all of the so-called "instant collectibles" (50 Yahre, Oscar Barnack and god knows how many others!) They decided to become a boutique company, catering to wealthy professional people who simply wanted to say, "Look at me, I have a Leica"! I think I lost real interest in the company when, instead of bringing out an R-10 that would allow the use of my R lenses in a 35 mm. format and introduce new, fast autofocus glass, they embarked on the ridiculous S series. That camera, except in a studio environment, was essentially worthless in the field!　

　

Believe me, I wanted to continue being a Leica devotee, but the company had lost their significance in the modern world of digital photography. All of their offerings today, are not really very exciting or useful and are extremely overpriced. I currently use a Nikon D5, and it will totally outperform ANYTHING that Leica makes today. I still have some of my R lenses, especially the macro type, which through adapters can be used with either the Nikon or Canon cameras. Believe me, I would much rather have been using an R-10 or (maybe by now an R-12). I have attached one example of a photo taken with the D5; it would be almost impossible (unfortunately) to duplicate this with the current batch of Leica's!

　

So, to a company that has had a great past and seemingly no future, I simply say: RIP!

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Edited August 4, 2017 by rockgod123

[LocalHero1953]

Well that's it then. I'm going to sell all my Leica kit and delete all my images, because I could never use them to take a shot like that. My life is over.

[Guest]

Anything is more interesting than Neymar.

Tricked you! The name's not unknown to you

[jaapv]

Hmm... it is mainly interesting because you took it hanging from the ceiling -and well taken too-, but it would have been a lot less plasticky using an SL, and would have had more presence using an S.

[LocalHero1953]

This is Dr. Martin Folb from Los Angeles. I was a long time Leica user starting in college, and eventually entered the International Salons with over 5000 acceptances and 1000 medals. This included 15 of the prestigious Charles A. Kinsley Memorial Trophies presented by Eastman Kodak at the PSA (Photographic Society of America) International Salon. I often gave a rather spectacular slide show for the Leica Seminars and knew and worked with Walter Heun. I was fortunate enough to win First Prize in the 1980 Leica "OLYMPIAD OF COLOR PHOTOGRAPHY".　

　

Can you post a link to your photos? All I get when I google is links to your model train and antique glass interests.

[jaapv]

I'm in the same quandary as you are, Paul. I'll have to destroy all my wildlife photographs taken with the M240, and any other taken with other M cameras and Visoflex, plus my  DMR shots... (I'll have to take that machine out of the mothballs one day, I still have to see any digital camera taking more striking images...)

It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools...

[willeica]

If I were taking fast action sports pictures I would probably not use a Leica. The best camera I ever had for this type of thing was a Nikon D3, but I don't do this anymore and the D3 and long lenses are all gone. On the other hand my Leica rangefinders get a lot of use for a wide range of photography nowadays and I am very happy with them.

 

Each to his own, I say.

 

William

[wlaidlaw]

 

I fear I caused a lot of confusion by my link to the "Bundesanzeiger"  

 

Looking again at the numbers quoted by Luigi i see that they don't come from the annual report of the Leica Camera AG but they are the "consolidated financial statement" set up by ACM (aka "Kaufmann") who are the "parent group" for Leica (Befreiender Konzernabschluss gem. § 291 HGB zum Geschäftsjahr vom 01.04.2015 bis zum 31.03.2016 dating from 22.02.2017)

 

Besides Leica Camera AG Kaufmann’s ACM owns VIAOPTIC GmbH and Uwe Weller Feinwerktechnik GmbH. Those other enterprises also work for the Leica production but not exclusively so. Both are also at the Leitz Park in Wetzlar, which in itself is owned by Kaufmann. So the data given in this report apply to a lot more than the Leica Camera AG., but they are only the consolidated data on the level of the parent company. In this report the Blackstone share of the Leica Camera AG appears as a „loss“.

 

To get the annual report for the Leica Camera AG you have to look at the document „Jahresabschluss zum Geschäftsjahr vom 01.04.2015 bis zum 31.03.2016“ from 23.01.2017.

 

The profit and loss statement from this report says

                                                                              2015/16                2014/15

1. Umsatzerlöse (turnover)                                       294.453.074,15     276.433.176,92

 

 

 

13. Ergebnis der gewöhnlichen Geschäftstätigkeit

(operating margin)                                                      38.409.747,09       13.516.508,12

14. Steuern vom Einkommen und vom Ertrag                   4.595.931,53        5.668.722,85

(taxes on margin)

15. Sonstige Steuern (other taxes)                                       34.137,17             19.834,46     

16. Aufgrund eines Gewinnabführungsvertrages

abgeführte Gewinne

(payments according to profit transfer agreement)         33.779.678,39         7.827.950,81

 

 

That is the figure I quoted in my post #35

[Steve Ash]

 

 I currently use a Nikon D5, and it will totally outperform ANYTHING that Leica makes today. 

 

 

Is this a photo or carved into plastic? 

[IkarusJohn]

I fear I caused a lot of confusion by my link to the "Bundesanzeiger"  

 

Looking again at the numbers quoted by Luigi i see that they don't come from the annual report of the Leica Camera AG but they are the "consolidated financial statement" set up by ACM (aka "Kaufmann") who are the "parent group" for Leica (Befreiender Konzernabschluss gem. § 291 HGB zum Geschäftsjahr vom 01.04.2015 bis zum 31.03.2016 dating from 22.02.2017)

 

Besides Leica Camera AG Kaufmann’s ACM owns VIAOPTIC GmbH and Uwe Weller Feinwerktechnik GmbH. Those other enterprises also work for the Leica production but not exclusively so. Both are also at the Leitz Park in Wetzlar, which in itself is owned by Kaufmann. So the data given in this report apply to a lot more than the Leica Camera AG., but they are only the consolidated data on the level of the parent company. In this report the Blackstone share of the Leica Camera AG appears as a „loss“.

 

To get the annual report for the Leica Camera AG you have to look at the document „Jahresabschluss zum Geschäftsjahr vom 01.04.2015 bis zum 31.03.2016“ from 23.01.2017.

 

The profit and loss statement from this report says

                                                                              2015/16                2014/15

1. Umsatzerlöse (turnover)                                       294.453.074,15     276.433.176,92

 

 

 

13. Ergebnis der gewöhnlichen Geschäftstätigkeit

(operating margin)                                                      38.409.747,09       13.516.508,12

14. Steuern vom Einkommen und vom Ertrag                   4.595.931,53        5.668.722,85

(taxes on margin)

15. Sonstige Steuern (other taxes)                                       34.137,17             19.834,46     

16. Aufgrund eines Gewinnabführungsvertrages

abgeführte Gewinne

(payments according to profit transfer agreement)         33.779.678,39         7.827.950,81

Thanks Uli. Fact, even limited fact, is so much more informative. Operating margin (I assume equivalent to EBITDA) for the 2016 year at 13% of turnover looks pretty healthy. Presumably the lower profit for the 2015 year reflects the cost of the move to Wetzlar (not sure why that would be - turnover was good, profit low).

 

I'm assuming that the Blackstone investment was time limited. Certainly, Leica seems to have done well out of it - new cameras, expansion of Leica boutiques. If I had that sort of money, a 13% gross return would be very attractive, not counting capital gains on the value of the shares.

 

John (not a rockgod, or any other god)

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[jaapv]

Is this a photo or carved into plastic? 

Very appropriate as the skin tones are pure Barbie-and-Ken...

[Alberti]

Posting deleted for it was completely messed by my browser!

 

To make it short: The number wlaidlaw mentions as a loss is not from the report for Leica Camera Ag Wetzlar but for Leica Camera GmbH Frankfurt, This is the Leica Store at Frankfurt, formerly known as Foto Rahn. Leica bougt it to modernize it and open a Gallery. The data for Leica Camera AG Wetzlar are completely different! Please try to look again.

 

I tried to quote from the report directly but my browser made a mess. I'll try again this evening with another device.

 

This 'investment' points to another cash sink in the business arena. I have seen several shops where I often pass that once had several staff hanging around and over time are slowly closing entrance doors and moving staff to an adjacent camera store through internal corridors. 

If this is widespread and long-during then it signals a problem area. If Leica headquraters took over the Frankfurt store to prove the viability or study improvements such as the gallery space, even more so. I'm afraid a gallery space will create a steady flow of visitors (how much?) but might not improve the buying propensity of clientele of gear.

 

My view: The Leica prices are so high the number of clients remain small and there is not much store traffic. (Everyone knows this)

Thus. It might seem not only the sensor replacement offer is a black hole for profits in the ecosphere. A failing outlet strategy cuts in the revenue of retailers, while the margins cannot be increased to let them get a fair profit: Margin x quantity = income. Few sales, high margins. High prices, little sales but also much advertising costs. I never see an add. There is nothing to show off, to impress, like driving a Bugatti or wearing a Rolex.

 

I don't appreciate the strategy at all. Second hand gear often sells for more - often two or three fold - than the original price decades ago because of what seems a clear monopoly pricing strategy. For me, new gear is priced as unobtainium. So I often bought used, but in my experience it is clearly overpriced and lacks quality. In a normal functioning market, second hand gear sells at half or less, for instance depreciating at 10-15% a year and 25% once you walk out of the store. 

 

A new industry partner I hope will bring the company back to the roots - a great volks camera. [sorry I dreamed a little bit here  ] So folks, I know which new investor I might like. But then it will also be one that will not put a high future value on the luxury brand strategy of the past years. 

 

Off course this is just speculation, so to say, on the point of a needle.