jaapv Posted July 8, 2017 Share #21 Posted July 8, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) ok I seem to remember this now...wasnt this enabled in a later FW? Regardless of what you call it, LV is still on...and as I said earlier Advanced metering only works with Live View as it reads from the actual live view image on the sensor. So the only benefit is the ability to turn off the screen...your still in LV mode and have all the disadvantages (or advantages) of LV. Regardless...the M10 does not allow this with current FW. Not sure if its a hardware limitation or not. Advanced metering needs the sensor to be activated and the shutter open. The confusion arises from the fact that live view needs the same condition as well. For the rest exposure metering and live view are two completely different things. Live view reads the video stream off the sensor and displays it on the LCD, exposure metering reads the output values off the sensor and uses them to calculate the exposure parameters. Thus, although the shutter is open and the sensor is activated, live view does not need to be on for advanced metering. If the M10 needs live view to be running to use advanced metering it is an omission in the firmware which should be corrected. A pretty annoying omission too, as the light from the LCD will spoil the view through the viewfinder in darker conditions, when it is likely that advanced metering is at its most useful.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 8, 2017 Posted July 8, 2017 Hi jaapv, Take a look here User profiles. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jdlaing Posted July 8, 2017 Share #22 Posted July 8, 2017 ok I seem to remember this now...wasnt this enabled in a later FW? Regardless of what you call it, LV is still on...and as I said earlier Advanced metering only works with Live View as it reads from the actual live view image on the sensor. So the only benefit is the ability to turn off the screen...your still in LV mode and have all the disadvantages (or advantages) of LV. Regardless...the M10 does not allow this with current FW. Not sure if its a hardware limitation or not. The only caveat I have to that is instead of turning off the screen I never turn it on. I use Classic metering most of the time anyway. I'd like to try an M-10 just to see what's what with it anyway regarding the metering. I just find it hard to believe they hobbled it like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 8, 2017 Share #23 Posted July 8, 2017 Advanced metering needs the sensor to be activated and the shutter open. The confusion arises from the fact that live view needs the same condition as well. For the rest exposure metering and live view are two completely different things. Live view reads the video stream off the sensor and displays it on the LCD, exposure metering reads the output values off the sensor and uses them to calculate the exposure parameters. Thus, although the shutter is open and the sensor is activated, live view does not need to be on for advanced metering. If the M10 needs live view to be running to use advanced metering it is an omission in the firmware which should be corrected. A pretty annoying omission too, as the light from the LCD will spoil the view through the viewfinder in darker conditions, when it is likely that advanced metering is at its most useful.. Im not sure how its any different...they both do the same thing, one with the screen on and one with it off. The camera still is clunky and slow in this mode. The only caveat I have to that is instead of turning off the screen I never turn it on. I use Classic metering most of the time anyway. I'd like to try an M-10 just to see what's what with it anyway regarding the metering. I just find it hard to believe they hobbled it like that. I dont...I wonder how many users actually use this mode? are you using this just for the advanced metering modes? how often do you use this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 8, 2017 Share #24 Posted July 8, 2017 Who's got an M-10 that would try an experiment for me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 8, 2017 Share #25 Posted July 8, 2017 [...] .they both do the same thing, one with the screen on and one with it off. The camera still is clunky and slow in this mode. [...] Yes i don't see the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 8, 2017 Share #26 Posted July 8, 2017 Who's got an M-10 that would try an experiment for me? I have an M10...what do you want to experiment? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 8, 2017 Share #27 Posted July 8, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Im not sure how its any different...they both do the same thing, one with the screen on and one with it off. The camera still is clunky and slow in this mode. That is just the confusion. They don't do the same thing, they only require the camera to be in the same state in order to operate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 8, 2017 Share #28 Posted July 8, 2017 I have an M10...what do you want to experiment? Put the camera in advanced metering mode. Does that switch on liveview as well or not? Never mind the clunk of the shutter opening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 8, 2017 Share #29 Posted July 8, 2017 There is indeed some confusion but i don't know where. We cannot do multi-field in classic mode right? So we need LV for that don't we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 8, 2017 Share #30 Posted July 8, 2017 No, we don't need LV. We need the shutter open to measure. That is not LV. LV is diverting the video stream of the sensor to the LCD, which by coincidence also needs the shutter to be open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 8, 2017 Share #31 Posted July 8, 2017 I have an M10...what do you want to experiment?Okay. With the camera in Classic Metering, turn the camera off. Turn the camera on and DO NOT press the Live View button to turn on the LCD. Go into the menu and choose Advanced Metering and Multi Field. Half press the shutter to close the menu screen. Is the LCD on showing a Live View image? If not.......take a shot. In review what metering icon shows? If the LCD is on after you exit the menu press the LV button to turn it off. Take a shot and in review what metering icon is showing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 8, 2017 Share #32 Posted July 8, 2017 Put the camera in advanced metering mode. Does that switch on liveview as well or not? Never mind the clunk of the shutter opening. As I posted earlier...what ever you want to call this...it doesn't work on the M10. Putting the camera in advanced metering mode does nothing but enable advanced metering. If LV is enabled, then it will use the selected mode. If LV is not enabled it will only use classic mode REGARDLESS of which meter mode is selected...hence the OP's question. You can turn on spot metering for example. It will remain on until you select another mode...but despite this the camera only uses the classic meter if LV is off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 8, 2017 Share #33 Posted July 8, 2017 No, we don't need LV. We need the shutter open. I don't see any difference but never mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 8, 2017 Share #34 Posted July 8, 2017 Okay. With the camera in Classic Metering, turn the camera off. Turn the camera on and DO NOT press the Live View button to turn on the LCD. Go into the menu and choose Advanced Metering and Multi Field. Half press the shutter to close the menu screen. Is the LCD on showing a Live View image? If not.......take a shot. In review what metering icon shows? If the LCD is on after you exit the menu press the LV button to turn it off. Take a shot and in review what metering icon is showing? Ok, you posted this earlier. With LV off the camera only uses classic metering. yes, even following your exact instructions. The ONLY way to use the advanced metering modes on the M10 is to turn on LV. I don't have it disabled in the menu...so its only on when the LV button is pressed. If I don't press the LV button, LV is not turned on. There is no way to work around this on the M10. NOTE: as I posted above, you can turn on advanced metering...but unless LV is turned on it doesn't make a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 8, 2017 Share #35 Posted July 8, 2017 As I posted earlier...what ever you want to call this...it doesn't work on the M10. Putting the camera in advanced metering mode does nothing but enable advanced metering. If LV is enabled, then it will use the selected mode. If LV is not enabled it will only use classic mode REGARDLESS of which meter mode is selected...hence the OP's question. You can turn on spot metering for example. It will remain on until you select another mode...but despite this the camera only uses the classic meter if LV is off. I fully understand that. Why would you disable Live View? Live View does not operate unless you: 1. Press the LV button. 2. Attach a Visoflex. 3. Switch to Advanced Metering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 8, 2017 Share #36 Posted July 8, 2017 As I posted earlier...what ever you want to call this...it doesn't work on the M10. Putting the camera in advanced metering mode does nothing but enable advanced metering. If LV is enabled, then it will use the selected mode. If LV is not enabled it will only use classic mode REGARDLESS of which meter mode is selected...hence the OP's question. You can turn on spot metering for example. It will remain on until you select another mode...but despite this the camera only uses the classic meter if LV is off. That is different then from the (or is it? I can read your post two ways) Choosing advanced metering in the menu will automatically open the shutter to enable the measurement. To enable live view one needs to push the live view (or EVF) button additionally. It is indeed impossible to use classic metering in live view mode, as classic metering reads the exposure off the closed shutter. The two are mutually exclusive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 8, 2017 Share #37 Posted July 8, 2017 That is different then from the M240. Enabling advanced metering in the menu will automatically open the shutter to enable the measurement. To enable live view one needs to push the live view(or EVF) button additionally. Exactly. I'm thinking it's the same on the M-10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 8, 2017 Share #38 Posted July 8, 2017 I fully understand that. Why would you disable Live View? Live View does not operate unless you: 1. Press the LV button. 2. Attach a Visoflex. 3. Switch to Advanced Metering. Im not sure what you mean? I dont disable LV because I occasionally use it. I use the LV button to turn it on or off. Disabling LV is done in the menu and when it is selected the LV button no longer functions. regarding your 1, 2 3: LV does not require a visoflex, nor does it require advanced modes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 8, 2017 Share #39 Posted July 8, 2017 Exactly. I'm thinking it's the same on the M-10. its not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 8, 2017 Share #40 Posted July 8, 2017 From the M10 manual: Exposure Metering Methods Depending on whether the Live View mode is being used or not, various metering methods are available to you.– If you are using the exposure meter: Strongly center-weighted metering. This method takes account of the entire image field, although the parts of the subject situat- ed in the center have more influence on the exposure value calculation than the areas at the margins.The light reflected by bright shutter curtain blades is captured by a photo diode and measured. – In Live View mode:Either spot, center-weighted and multi-field metering. In these cases, metering is done by the picture sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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