M10 Rangefinder Patch issues

[wilks]

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Good day fellow photographers.

I am new to the forum, so this is my first post.

I have recently tested the M10. ( beautiful camera) I found that compared to the M240/M262 I really struggled to see and line up the RF patch.

I found that the brighter OVF in the M10 to make it difficult to see, especially outdoors. When lining up on a darker contrast there was no problem but in a lighter contrast situation I was just having to make a guess which was resulting in out of focus images.

From what I have read, a majority of people are saying the opposite, and

I'd be interested if anyone else is having these issues, and if there is a way around my findings.

Thanks in advance.

[jaapv]

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270234-focus-technique-diopters-and-magnifiers/?do=findComment&comment=3230601

[lct]

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270234-focus-technique-diopters-and-magnifiers/?do=findComment&comment=3230601

 

Interesting thanks but what difference is there between M10 and M240 regarding OVF brightness and RF patch contrast if any? Just curious.

[jaapv]

As I understand M10 is to the M240 as the M240 is to the M9 (approx.)

[lct]

OK thanks but the OP wrote « I found that compared to the M240/M262 I really struggled to see and line up the RF patch ». Does it mean that the M10's RF patch is less visible and/or less contrasty than that of M240/M262? 

[jaapv]

I rather doubt that - M10 owners could confirm. Basically it should be as easy or easier to use. Maybe the different magnification shows up minor eye errors.

[digitalfx]

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Are you sure the RF window didn't have a finger print or wasn't partially blocked?...the M10 RF is most defiantly easier to focus than the M240. The VF is larger and the rf patch is easier to see when aligned IMO.

[UliWer]

As far as I can see the  rangefinder patch is not different - neither darker nor brighter - than for other M cameras (with traditionally lit framelines).  If someone cannot see the patch, the obvious reason might be that the little window for the rangefinder in the camera's front is obstructed in some way or other. The M10 being slimmer might result in a different way of holding it - and so getting in front of the rangefinder window.  

 

Though there might be something else involved - but I do not know, if the original poster made the same experience:

 

Yesterday I tried the M10 in very dark surroundings. I noticed that the framelines - not the rangefinder patch! - changed their brightness for uncertain reasons. Sometimes they appeared rather dim, sometimes very bright. This may be a result of surrounding light caused by car lights or something like this. Though I also got the impression that the framelines got less bright when I used the "metering memory lock" by half-pressing the shutter release.  I noticed as well that the "metering memory lock" caused  some flickering of the EVF.

 

Long ago Mark Norton analysed the electricity consumption of different devices of the M8. He found out that the "metering memory lock" had a surprisingly high need of electricity - more than "chimping". Since my battery was low I cannot rule out the possibility that the "high" consumption of electricity for the memory lock caused the frameline to become dimmer and the EVF to start flickering.

 

[jaapv]

However, the OP is not the only user to report similar issues:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270322-probleme-bei-der-fokussierung/

[digitalfx]

 

 

Yesterday I tried the M10 in very dark surroundings. I noticed that the framelines - not the rangefinder patch! - changed their brightness for uncertain reasons. Sometimes they appeared rather dim, sometimes very bright. This may be a result of surrounding light caused by car lights or something like this. Though I also got the impression that the framelines got less bright when I used the "metering memory lock" by half-pressing the shutter release.  I noticed as well that the "metering memory lock" caused  some flickering of the EVF.

 

 

 

 

Ive noticed this since day one...I assumed it was the sensor that adjusts the frame line brightness...easily fooled by lighting and occasionally causes the frame line to flicker from brightest to dimmest settings. Very annoying. I logged this in the FW thread, hopefully its addressed in an update.

[digitalfx]

However, the OP is not the only user to report similar issues:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270322-probleme-bei-der-fokussierung/

 

Ive tried Chrome translator on this discussion, but it doesn't do a very good job. Very difficult to understand what he is saying if your language is limited to English

[jaapv]

Basically he is saying that he is having trouble focusing consistently close up.

[digitalfx]

Basically he is saying that he is having trouble focusing consistently close up.

 

 

 I tend to shoot at minimum focus, wide open...and have no issues.

[Torsten_M]

In the German discussion the solution now is that there is a hight misalignment on the rangefinder. I had it once by myself. While you can focus accurately sometimes, it is very difficult. I dropped my M8 slightly on a wodden floor this provoked the misalignment.

[Pyotr]

As far as I can see the  rangefinder patch is not different - neither darker nor brighter - than for other M cameras (with traditionally lit framelines).  If someone cannot see the patch, the obvious reason might be that the little window for the rangefinder in the camera's front is obstructed in some way or other. The M10 being slimmer might result in a different way of holding it - and so getting in front of the rangefinder window.  

 

Though there might be something else involved - but I do not know, if the original poster made the same experience:

 

Yesterday I tried the M10 in very dark surroundings. I noticed that the framelines - not the rangefinder patch! - changed their brightness for uncertain reasons. Sometimes they appeared rather dim, sometimes very bright. This may be a result of surrounding light caused by car lights or something like this. Though I also got the impression that the framelines got less bright when I used the "metering memory lock" by half-pressing the shutter release.  I noticed as well that the "metering memory lock" caused  some flickering of the EVF.

 

Long ago Mark Norton analysed the electricity consumption of different devices of the M8. He found out that the "metering memory lock" had a surprisingly high need of electricity - more than "chimping". Since my battery was low I cannot rule out the possibility that the "high" consumption of electricity for the memory lock caused the frameline to become dimmer and the EVF to start flickering.

 

Ive noticed this since day one...I assumed it was the sensor that adjusts the frame line brightness...easily fooled by lighting and occasionally causes the frame line to flicker from brightest to dimmest settings. Very annoying. I logged this in the FW thread, hopefully its addressed in an update.

 

Yes, it is the sensor that is controlling this. It can be simulated by pointing the camera to the light and sliding a finger over the circular sensor at the front - the frame lines in the OVF (and the exposure reading numbers) fade in and out. In actual use it does seem over-sensitive.  Would be good to have a menu option to override this, similar to the brightness controls for the screen and EVF (auto, etc.).  I agree it can be quite annoying!

[jaapv]

Or- Do people wave their finger in front of that light sensor?

[digitalfx]

Or- Do people wave their finger in front of that light sensor?

 

 

No, the issue is when you have strong overhead lights in a otherwise dark room (like track lighting). This is when I notice the issue the most frequently...its quite annoying.

The sensor doesn't seem to know how to react, so it flickers the frame lines.

 

Generally when this happens for me, its a rapid change.

[Pyotr]

Yes, agree - same here. (Incidentally, I wonder if the reluctance to include an aperture estimate in the raw/jpg files of the M10 (which I understand would be linked to the reading from that same sensor amongst other things) might have something to do with the flakinesss of the readout of that sensor... Probably a conspiracy theory...)

[ramarren]

I don't own an M10 but I compared my M-D typ 262 to the M10 at the Leica store. The optical brightness of the viewfinder is identical to my eye, the greater magnification made the M10 a little easier to focus. The frame line brightness didn't seem different to me at all either ... both auto-adapt to ambient brightness using the on-camera sensor. 

 

I think a dirty RF secondary window is the most likely culprit for the OP's problem. I've accidentally smeared a greasy fingerprint across mine from time to time with similar difficult focusing results. This is not a fault of the M10 so much as an occasional issue with any Leica M. The M10's slimmer body could be throwing off where the OP is holding the camera a little bit and making it more likely that the window is smeared or the ambient light sensor is covered... 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[UliWer]

Or- Do people wave their finger in front of that light sensor?

 

Well, your car uses a windscreen-wiper when it rains, doesn't it?

 

No - I just tried what caused my irritation by differing brightness of the framelines:

 

Fully charged battery and pressing down the shutter release button half way for quite a long time: no reaction of the frame-lines. I don't think that my theory of power cunsumption by the memory lock  is valid (it is valid for the EVF: it starts "flickering" when you use metering memory lock) 

 

 As  digitalfx described above the framelines react rather quickly to changes of light in your surroundings. When I aimed at a lamp they where very bright, a small turn to a darker area let them get much dimmer, a further turn to an area which was a little bit lighter made them bright again. Same reaction when I took the turn in opposite direction.

 

There certainly is a ratio behind this: in bright surroundings you might ask for brighter lines for contrast. In dark surooundings too much light from the frames might be  bothering. Though at the moment I think they are changing too much, which is irritating as I never saw this before. Perhaps I accustom.

 

Is this new for the M10 or do the lines for the M (typ 240) change as well?  The manual for the M10 doesn't mention this.