Guest Posted July 19, 2017 Share #841 Posted July 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Agreed I shot and developed slides in the past mainly and a few B & W prints/Cibachromes. I know the "uncertainty and disappointment!"! Very well. However I did enjoy watching those slides/prints coming to life! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Hi Guest, Take a look here M10? - Sorry, no!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ozytripper Posted July 19, 2017 Share #842 Posted July 19, 2017 Cobbler’s awls! Regret is one thing. Whingeing interminably is quite another. whingeing Interminably is unacceptable. But defending one's right against silly recommendations and outright hostility agains one's wishes is not whingeing interminable I don't need nor want video but I have no objections to others who want it. Instead of telling them to go buy an SL or a 240 i'd wish them luck with a potentially updated M10 (hopefully) that has the feature. And if it does not materialize then so be it. Can't stop someone expressing their wish I would be upset too if someone tells me to go buy a 240 which is already super seeded by the M10 (not in bells and whistles but in functional features like higher ISO and better EVF and OVF) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 19, 2017 Share #843 Posted July 19, 2017 Cobbler’s awls! Regret is one thing. Whingeing interminably is quite another.You mean like the anti-video lobby for the 240? There couldn't be a thread that didn't contain somebody going on about it interfering with "purity " BTW, in the end I don't regret the way things went; it pointed me to a far more suitable system for my needs and saved me a bunch of money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 19, 2017 Share #844 Posted July 19, 2017 Satisfaction seems to be much more elusive than in past. For me, it seems a victim of internet and rapid technological advance. Imagine how deeply satisfying it must have been, all those years ago, to finally obtain that Barnack Leica. It was, and still is, perfect for satisfying your will or feelings toward creating a photograph. Dunno for you but when i received my new M4 four decades ago, my first reaction was it has too many plastic parts compared to the M3… Grumbler forever . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 19, 2017 Share #845 Posted July 19, 2017 You mean like the anti-video lobby for the 240? There couldn't be a thread that didn't contain somebody going on about it interfering with "purity " [...] Indeed and the topic of this thread is "M10 sorry no", not "I love my M10" or "Give me an SL"... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted July 19, 2017 Share #846 Posted July 19, 2017 That's unfortunate, for both digital photography and intellectual exercises. The only time I shot film was back in high school when I learned how to develop b&w photos. Talk about uncertainty and disappointment! High school was an intellectual exercise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted July 19, 2017 Share #847 Posted July 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Read out loud the first two words in this 1950ies advertisment. Repeat three times. Take off hat. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (No, I also like all of my digital M's anyway; this is just to illustrate the general change of perspective and values) Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (No, I also like all of my digital M's anyway; this is just to illustrate the general change of perspective and values) ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269227-m10-sorry-no/?do=findComment&comment=3318981'>More sharing options...
lct Posted July 19, 2017 Share #848 Posted July 19, 2017 Digital and lifetime investment are mutually exclusive i'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
@ndy_ellis Posted July 19, 2017 Share #849 Posted July 19, 2017 I'm not technical at all - but I can imagine that sensors will improve so that noise levels will reduce with ever higher ISO limits. That will keep it going plus things we haven't thought of yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 19, 2017 Share #850 Posted July 19, 2017 Read out loud the first two words in this 1950ies advertisment. Repeat three times. Take off hat. Forum-Export_500KB-00001.jpg (No, I also like all of my digital M's anyway; this is just to illustrate the general change of perspective and values) Still going strong... http://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-M-A Perfect and Timeless Design The exterior of the Leica M-A is as timeless as the precision engineering hidden inside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted July 19, 2017 Share #851 Posted July 19, 2017 Still going strong... +1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaeaix Posted July 21, 2017 Share #852 Posted July 21, 2017 I use iPhone to do video. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 21, 2017 Share #853 Posted July 21, 2017 Using iPhones and stills cameras to do video!!? What's wrong with a video camera? Sorry, really sorry. Just stirring. (post a very liquid lunch!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted July 21, 2017 Share #854 Posted July 21, 2017 You mean like the anti-video lobby for the 240? There couldn't be a thread that didn't contain somebody going on about it interfering with "purity " BTW, in the end I don't regret the way things went; it pointed me to a far more suitable system for my needs and saved me a bunch of money. I was never interested in the 240 so I didn’t follow that forum. It was, as far as I know, the only M ever to have video. The M10 is just reverting to the norm. I think your comment reinforces the point that, on the whole, M users don’t want video in their M. No doubt their reasons vary. I’m all in favour of Leica listening to its customers. Coming, as I do, from the M9, I find the M10 a good step up. It’s a superb camera lacking nothing as far as I’m concerned. For those who need to be able to use M lenses with video and who don't want to stick with the 240, I suggest taking a look at the TL series! When you’re using video on what was essentially designed to be a stills camera, the lenses tend to matter more than the body. I dare say you've found that with the system you've moved to. I often use a T with M lenses and it makes for a very compact and effective set-up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 21, 2017 Share #855 Posted July 21, 2017 I'm not going to rehash that whole discussion after a zillion posts on the subject. I'll just point out that the great 1930-ies Leica ambassador Dr. Paul Wolff, who promoted "the Leica" as a travel camera found moving images so essential for his specialty, that he is said to have presented movie stills as being made with a Leica. So to me, it came as no surprise that Leica incorporated Video in the M as soon as it was technically possible. It saddens the traditionalist in me, that the historical main function of the M, travel and reportage, is no longer regarded as part of its scope by present-day owners. Instead, it is perceived as a tool for street photography and around the house, nothing more .Only some eccentrics like me want to use it to the full extent of its ability. I do fear, BTW, that street photography will be lopped off as well with the advent of high-quality mirrorless compact and light cameras, leaving the M in an ever-shrinking niche. I guess I'm just an old Luddite at heart... Today is my staff-day out. They have chosen the Zoo (?) and dinner What camera will I be taking? I wouldn't even have asked myself that question in the past. Today the M will remain in the safe, I will have a Panasonic; I'll probably slip the X2 in my pocket for old times sake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 21, 2017 Share #856 Posted July 21, 2017 I'm not going to rehash that whole discussion after a zillion posts on the subject. I'll just point out that the great 1930-ies Leica ambassador Dr. Paul Wolff, who promoted "the Leica" as a travel camera found moving images so essential for his specialty, that he is said to have presented movie stills as being made with a Leica. So to me, it came as no surprise that Leica incorporated Video in the M as soon as it was technically possible. It saddens the traditionalist in me, that the historical main function of the M, travel and reportage, is no longer regarded as part of its scope by present-day owners. Instead, it is perceived as a tool for street photography and around the house, nothing more .Only some eccentrics like me want to use it to the full extent of its ability. I do fear, BTW, that street photography will be lopped off as well with the advent of high-quality mirrorless compact and light cameras, leaving the M in an ever-shrinking niche. I guess I'm just an old Luddite at heart... Today is my staff-day out. They have chosen the Zoo (?) and dinner What camera will I be taking? I wouldn't even have asked myself that question in the past. Today the M will remain in the safe, I will have a Panasonic; I'll probably slip the X2 in my pocket for old times sake. I have a lot of sympathy with this point of view. I have just re-invested in a new M10 to replace the one I broke, because it is the perfect camera for me and it feels like a part of my anatomy. But I must admit that if I were to sell my entire Leica outfit and replace it with, say, a Fuji outfit for argument's sake, not much would change for me; life would be a little less troublesome on occasion ( mainly because I wouldn't have Wetzlar's idiosyncrasies to deal with), I'd re-accustom myself to autofocus, and I'd have a few thousand pounds more in the bank. It seems to me that Leica' treatment of it customers has fallen behind the high standards of the design of its products in recent years and this is something I regret, and together with the enthusiasm with which it embraces its status as a "luxury brand" is something which may eventually drive me away. If only the M10 were not such a wonderful camera, and those incredible little lenses... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhicks Posted July 21, 2017 Share #857 Posted July 21, 2017 Maybe I'm just not reading this right but it seems to me the only limitation that any camera has are those we place on it. To say it's perceived as useful only for 'street' photography or for around the home baffles me. Just one peek inside the M10 images thread suggests otherwise. As for 'treatment of its customers,' I don't understand the sentiment suggested there, either. It's not as if Leica will now stop making cameras and is telling the populace: this is it! We've reached the apex. Who knows what further development will bring? Patience, it seems, is the sentiment that is dying a slow death in modern society. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 21, 2017 Share #858 Posted July 21, 2017 Maybe I'm just not reading this right but it seems to me the only limitation that any camera has are those we place on it. To say it's perceived as useful only for 'street' photography or for around the home baffles me. Just one peek inside the M10 images thread suggests otherwise. As for 'treatment of its customers,' I don't understand the sentiment suggested there, either. It's not as if Leica will now stop making cameras and is telling the populace: this is it! We've reached the apex. Who knows what further development will bring? Patience, it seems, is the sentiment that is dying a slow death in modern society. Yes, I think you're misinterpreting my words about Leica's treatment of its customers, which is understandable since I didn't make it clear. I'm talking about their direct relationship with customers who have problems with their products. Support and communication is, in my experience, a fair way behind the standards of the industry, and what I think we should expect from a producer of high quality products. I'm not talking about the products themselves, their features or their release cycle or anything of that nature. Their are a number of ways Leica could improve its relationship with its customers, and for a company producing high-price high-quality products for people who often demonstrate a very strong desire for a sense of affinity with the brand, I believe they could and should do a great deal better. I'm not sure I understand your reference to patience, by the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted July 21, 2017 Share #859 Posted July 21, 2017 A thought has fluttered across my mind in recent days, batted away each time, but still returning: "the TL2 is an attractive camera, small with a good interface, with excellent native lenses and capable of taking M (and other) lenses. By M and SL standards it costs small change. It's latest iteration is, by all accounts, much more responsive, if not as instantaneous as the M. Why not get one as a counterpoint to the SL, for travel, hiking etc?" To which the rational mind responds "but that would leave your M240 with nothing to do". Hmmm. Leica is squeezing its own market for the M series. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 21, 2017 Share #860 Posted July 21, 2017 [...] What camera will I be taking? I wouldn't even have asked myself that question in the past. Today the M will remain in the safe, I will have a Panasonic [...] ... and i have a Sony. I feel sad to keep my Ms at home more and more but i need a fast EVF and a bit of video from time to time and i don't intend to carry two cameras for that. "Das Wesentliche" won't kill my love for rangefinders hopefully but out of sight out of mind as they say… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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