M10? - Sorry, no!

[schattenundlicht]

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[...] The absence of a plug or a lead or a button is neither here nor there in the long run, particularly if we recall the famous dictum of J. M. Keynes.

William

I presume that you are referring to Keynes' "The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead."

 

With regard to Leica, and specifically Leica collectibles, an even more fitting quote, often ascribed to Keynes (although deemed to be apocryphal by Skidelsky) might be "The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent”.

 

;-)

Kind regards

Mathias

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[bocaburger]

I never said anything about retrofitting.

 

If you absolutely need USB in M camera then you are stuck with a 2012 M240 camera because the M10 doesn't have it. You are stuck in a dead end using an old camera unless Leica decide to introduce a new model M with USB.

 

The M10, on the other hand will be replaced with the M11, M12 etc. If none of those have USB you are stuck in the dead end M240.

And if I buy an M10, it will, as you said, be replaced with the M11.  Meaning the M10 is a dead-end.  And so in turn will be the M11, M12 ad inf. 

If one's goal is never to be "stuck in a dead end using an old camera" then one has no choice but to upgrade each time a new model is released.  Nothing wrong with that.  It's a personal choice, it keeps Leica in business, and it provides a ready-supply of reasonably-priced barely-used prior-generation bodies for those who find they can produce satisfying images with those cameras.  It's all good, every niche finds its market.

[erl]

I'm trying to work out which 'dead end' I am stuck in.

 

I have ten (I think!) Leicas, going back to my 111f. None of them have stopped working as intended (the R8 is currently being serviced for a minor glitch, I hope).

 

Can't see the brick wall in front of me yet!

[schattenundlicht]

I agree with regard to film cameras. But does anybody believe that there will be replacement "Maestro II" chips in 50 years time? Not that it will be a problem of mine (cf. Keynes, again...).

[erl]

As the Gyuto Monks say, "nothing is forever".

[willeica]

I agree with regard to film cameras. But does anybody believe that there will be replacement "Maestro II" chips in 50 years time? Not that it will be a problem of mine (cf. Keynes, again...).

 

Digital cameras are made to be replaced by the next new 'gotta have' wonder. This is all reminiscent of the US car industry in the 1950s and 1960s with what we called 'planned obsolescence' at one stage before it became the norm with electronic goods. Cameras are now a subset of the electronics market and are made to be replaced. In the early film days, cameras were made to last and to be repaired until about the 1980s when program modes and autofocus and other electronic wonders began to creep in, anticipating the digital explosion. I don't expect my M10 to work (for somebody else, I'll be gone with Keynes etc) in 50 years from now, but I do expect that my earliest Leica I model A from 1926 will still work if 35mm film is still available. 

 

William

[jaapv]

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I agree with regard to film cameras. But does anybody believe that there will be replacement "Maestro II" chips in 50 years time? Not that it will be a problem of mine (cf. Keynes, again...).

Who knows? Maybe the printing of antique electronic components will be available in an iPhone 34-S app.

[schattenundlicht]

:-)

[jaapv]

But it is a valid point. Obsolete technology is being recreated. There are people making Daguerrotypes nowadays.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lco8vsJGQUA

[schattenundlicht]

Hopefully, for the future, that may be true with regard to electronics, too, but I tend to be rather doubtful. Have you tried to have an Atari or VIC64 computer repaired recently? You can emulate them in software on a Linux PC, but that is not quite the same. Imagine an iPhone emulation of the M10... Maybe future generations will be less nostalgic than us and the whole matter will become moot.

[schattenundlicht]

As the Gyuto Monks say, "nothing is forever".

Going back 2.500 years, indeed, their predecessors in northern India used to say "sabbe sankhara anicca" ('all conditioned phenomena are impermanent') - long befor things turned digital. But I digress...

[wolfloid]

Why does that matter?

 

At the moment the M10 is the most up-to-date version of the M line. All anyone is saying is that they'd prefer it if it were slightly different in some respects, and included one or two features from the M240 that they liked.

 

I really don't see any failure of logic here.

With any product the consumer has to make choices, it really is as simple as that. Leica made a choice to offer a slimmed down, simplified M for a particular market point. There are many things it lacks, video is only one of them. There are features only it has, like a direct ISO dial - pluses and minuses. Of course, someone can regret Leica's decision to leave video out, even complain about it, but why waste so much mental energy defending their 'right' to whinge, when there are even Leica cameras with the wanted rudimentary video that can be had for even less?

[Guest]

Of course, someone can regret Leica's decision to leave video out, even complain about it, but why waste so much mental energy defending their 'right' to whinge, when there are even Leica cameras with the wanted rudimentary video that can be had for even less?

 

This is what the internet some parts of the forums have mainly become a whingers paradise and I include myself before I am accused of anything. If one has a problem, these forums are the perfect place to see if someone else has the same experience. A lot of the time we can learn pretty quickly a run-around or fix. That's OK one can learn, and one can help others with a solution or suggestion.

 

However there is another group and these are the real whingers. There are many reasons for whinging and only some are valid. A new model in this case M10 not having video in my view is not valid as we have other options if we cannot live without video.

[jaapv]

Bollocks. A company removes a feature that was present on the previous model and people should not be allowed to regret that decision?

[SilentShutter]

Digital cameras are made to be replaced by the next new 'gotta have' wonder. This is all reminiscent of the US car industry in the 1950s and 1960s with what we called 'planned obsolescence' at one stage before it became the norm with electronic goods. Cameras are now a subset of the electronics market and are made to be replaced. In the early film days, cameras were made to last and to be repaired until about the 1980s when program modes and autofocus and other electronic wonders began to creep in, anticipating the digital explosion. I don't expect my M10 to work (for somebody else, I'll be gone with Keynes etc) in 50 years from now, but I do expect that my earliest Leica I model A from 1926 will still work if 35mm film is still available. 

 

William

 

Agree on that William. Some of my gear was build in the 50 and still work after 67 years while some of my modern cameras and lenses we bought

for the studio had to be repaired twice or had been repaired (or trown away) ! 

[lct]

Either "Das Wesentliche" was a philosophy and we're (you're) stuck with a legacy camera forever, or it was a marketing way to explain that the camera would have been hot as a toaster with a fast EVF and video. Take your pick...

[euston]

Bollocks. A company removes a feature that was present on the previous model and people should not be allowed to regret that decision?

 

Cobbler’s awls! Regret is one thing. Whingeing interminably is quite another.

[Guest]

Bollocks. A company removes a feature that was present on the previous model and people should not be allowed to regret that decision?

 

Of course it is allowed, but I agree with 'euston' "Whingeing interminably is quite another."

 

It is a bit like the democratic vote in the UK, which one side does not respect because it went against them ..........

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Wayne]

Satisfaction seems to be much more elusive than in past. For me, it seems a victim of internet and rapid technological advance. Imagine how deeply satisfying it must have been, all those years ago, to finally obtain that Barnack Leica. It was, and still is, perfect for satisfying your will or feelings toward creating a photograph. So much of digital photography, again, for me, feels like an intellectual exercise. As I look back on my years it becomes more apparent I have not gained much satisfaction through intellectual exercise...... mostly, more uncertainty and disappointment.

[mhicks]

. So much of digital photography, again, for me, feels like an intellectual exercise. As I look back on my years it becomes more apparent I have not gained much satisfaction through intellectual exercise...... mostly, more uncertainty and disappointment.

That's unfortunate, for both digital photography and intellectual exercises.

 

The only time I shot film was back in high school when I learned how to develop b&w photos. Talk about uncertainty and disappointment!