M 11 will be around in less than 4 years. The speculations and facts.

[WvE]

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I hope not that the M11 is still out for another two years, unless the "M10-R" is a worthy interim pope.  

[GT2RS]

EVF on Leica M would be the death of "M". There is absolutely no reason to buy M at that point. You might as well save the money and get Fuji or something. I know Leica isn't stupid so it won't happen.

1. 40MP+ sensor w/ improved ISO

2. Bigger battery

3. Weight reduction (620g or lower)

That's it.

Edited February 1, 2020 by GT2RS

[IkarusJohn]

26 minutes ago, GT2RS said:

EVF on Leica M would be the death of "M". There is absolutely no reason to buy M at that point. You might as well save the money and get Fuji or something. I know Leica isn't stupid so it won't happen.

1. 40MP+ sensor w/ improved ISO

2. Bigger battery

3. Weight reduction (620g or lower)

That's it.

What other compact, full frame camera plays well with 56 years (and more) of fabulous, legacy M lenses?

Death of the M?  Don’t be silly.  The P, Monochrom, Safari, LCD-less, MP, battery-less M-A and special versions all added to the M gamut.  Why on earth would adding another variant suddenly kill what is Leica’s most enduring and successful brand?  It’s not going to suddenly offer video (heresy) or auto-focus, nor will the other variants suddenly grind to a halt.

Will Leica make it?  I doubt it, but that doesn’t make it a silly idea.  I’m sure many would have said the same about a digital M (wash your mouth).

[magixaxeman]

On 2/1/2020 at 6:54 AM, IkarusJohn said:

What other compact, full frame camera plays well with 56 years (and more) of fabulous, legacy M lenses?

Death of the M?  Don’t be silly.  The P, Monochrom, Safari, LCD-less, MP, battery-less M-A and special versions all added to the M gamut.  Why on earth would adding another variant suddenly kill what is Leica’s most enduring and successful brand?  It’s not going to suddenly offer video (heresy) or auto-focus, nor will the other variants suddenly grind to a halt.

Will Leica make it?  I doubt it, but that doesn’t make it a silly idea.  I’m sure many would have said the same about a digital M (wash your mouth).

As has been pointed out before if you take the rangefinder off an M camera and replace it with an EVF it ceases to be an "M" camera as the M stands for "Messuchur" German for rangefinder, It then becomes an EVF Mirrorless Camera or as the Japanese refer to it Fuji.

[Mr.Prime]

I am hoping for an electrically assisted rangefinder in the M11. My eyes are not perfect, I want a manual focus optical viewfinder, but I'll take augmentation if it improves the experience.

The viewfinder is one of the most important items, it's key to my interaction with the camera. It is waaaaay more important to me than some additional pixels. What makes my m3 a nice camera is how it handles. There are plenty of other cameras that will take m-lenses, provide lots of pixels. The M for me is about how it handles. My cheque book will be released from the safe for an M11 if it brings me a better viewfinder. I may not be able to wait that long though, an M10 might have to be obtained first.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Mr.Prime

[lct]

2 hours ago, magixaxeman said:

As has been pointed out before if you take the rangefinder off an M camera and replace it with an EVF it ceases to be an "M" camera as the M stands for "Messuchur" German for rangefinder, It then becomes an EVF Mirrorless Camera or as the Japanese refer to it Fuji.

"Messuchur" really? . Some Leica rangefinders are not called "M" (IIIf, IIIg) and some Leica M cameras have no rangefinder (M1, MD, MDa). A Leica camera with an M mount and a built-in Visoflex could then be called "MV" or any other M designation without the sky falling over our heads .

[Kwesi]

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51 minutes ago, lct said:

"Messuchur" really? . Some Leica rangefinders are not called "M" (IIIf, IIIg) and some Leica M cameras have no rangefinder (M1, MD, MDa). A Leica camera with an M mount and a built-in Visoflex could then be called "MV" or any other M designation without the sky falling over our heads .

Once you take away the ability to see beyond the frame lines  in the viewfinder, you lose the power of the M

[lct]

36 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

Once you take away the ability to see beyond the frame lines  in the viewfinder, you lose the power of the M

Power, weakness, it is a matter of tastes but frame lines can be found in many optical finders including but not only on M cameras. Unless you consider my Epson R-D1 an M camera of course .

[calijax]

39 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

Once you take away the ability to see beyond the frame lines  in the viewfinder, you lose the power of the M

That power is merely a fantasy for glasses wearers (like myself) that use 28mm or 35mm framelines with 0.72 magnification.... you can't see beyond them anyway...

I own M's because they are beautiful, tactile full frame cameras that still fit inside a pocket or small bag....  

[Jeff S]

26 minutes ago, calijax said:

That power is merely a fantasy for glasses wearers (like myself) that use 28mm or 35mm framelines with 0.72 magnification.... you can't see beyond them anyway...

I own M's because they are beautiful, tactile full frame cameras that still fit inside a pocket or small bag....  

And the RF/VF experience of the M remains...like seeing through a window....even as the frame lines disappear.  One learns to approximate framing with an M anyway, as it's accurate at only one distance anyway.

Jeff

Edited February 6, 2020 by Jeff S

[marcg]

IBIS

adjustable diopter

[Kwesi]

2 hours ago, calijax said:

That power is merely a fantasy for glasses wearers (like myself) that use 28mm or 35mm framelines with 0.72 magnification.... you can't see beyond them anyway...

I own M's because they are beautiful, tactile full frame cameras that still fit inside a pocket or small bag....  

I hear you. Perhaps its time to consider contact lenses

[Jeff S]

9 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

I hear you. Perhaps its time to consider contact lenses

I think you're the one being "short sighted" here. I've used M cameras for 35+ years, always using glasses, and have never "lost the power of an M" as a result.  See above.

Jeff

[rramesh]

The Leica M serves a niche market. It's a rangefinder and the best in the market.

Today the S, M, SL, Q, T all serve different niches.

The photography market is broad with a diversity of needs, and the plethora of available technologies is equally broad.

Leica should not follow the route of Sony or Nikon and try to build 'Swiss army knives'. I for one don't need an M with EVF, video etc. If this is important, Leica does have the SL. So why turn the M into an SL like?

[Kwesi]

2 hours ago, lct said:

Power, weakness, it is a matter of tastes but frame lines can be found in many optical finders including but not only on M cameras. Unless you consider my Epson R-D1 an M camera of course .

 

4 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I think you're the one being "short sighted" here. I've used M cameras for 35+ years, always using glasses, and have never "lost the power of an M" as a result.  See above.

Jeff

Jeff,

One of the joys of using an M is being able to see beyond the frame lines so you can choose what you want to include in your frame without moving the camera around as one would with an SLR. I thought this knowledge was commonplace.

Glad you still find the M to be a powerful image making device.

[Jeff S]

14 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

 

Jeff,

One of the joys of using an M is being able to see beyond the frame lines so you can choose what you want to include in your frame without moving the camera around as one would with an SLR. I thought this knowledge was commonplace.

Glad you still find the M to be a powerful image making device.

Thanks, but I think after 35 years of use, I don't need Joel to explain the basics.  There are many other significant benefits of RF viewing with an M, obvious to generations of photographers. Many learn how to use the RF even for focal lengths that don't have corresponding frame lines.  But I guess for you the M isn't as powerful for 28mm viewing as for 135mm viewing, since there is less space around the 28mm frames lines.  🙄

Jeff

[lct]

27 minutes ago, rramesh said:

[...] Leica should not follow the route of Sony or Nikon and try to build 'Swiss army knives'. I for one don't need an M with EVF, video etc. If this is important, Leica does have the SL. So why turn the M into an SL like?

Not sure who wants to turn it this way. SL-like cameras are not and will never be an M camera i.e. a compact camera designed for M lenses. People like truly yours have been using M cameras for 30+ years and own several M bodies already but i do miss a compact mirrorless camera designed for M lenses, not for L or Sony ones i'm not interested in. It this so difficult to understand really?

[jaapv]

Yes, as Leica offers fully functional adapters and makes their camera sensors compatible with M lenses. What you should be asking for is a more M-like SL. 

[lct]

A fully functional adapter would allow focus magnification by turning the focus ring of M lenses. Would be easier and less expensive to keep the M mount as is i guess but i'm no techie at all.

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[jaapv]

That is true. However, offset by the added lens versatility by such an M-L. I don't think it would be that complicated - it would only take a motion sensor.