IkarusJohn Posted February 17, 2017 Share #201 Posted February 17, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) In what circumstances would I? Strange response ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here M 11 will be around in less than 4 years. The speculations and facts.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rosuna Posted February 17, 2017 Share #202 Posted February 17, 2017 Who wants a touch sensitive screen anyway when your nose is pushing against it the whole time? Touch sensitive screens can be turned off. I have my iPhone in my pocket and nothing happens until I turn it on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted February 17, 2017 Share #203 Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) A touch screen could come in handy for focus aids- touch to select area of magnification. But I wouldn't want the buttons eliminated. Compare the iPhone and the trend to buttonless devices with the old mobile phones. The only market in which this trend is not present is the camera market, and it is absurd. Do you imagine a smartphone with a button for deleting, play (video), call, make a picture, going down a menu, select, hang up,... yes, it is a Blackberry from more than 10 years ago... or the back of a camera today. The Leica T is the best design in a digital camera I have never seen. Edited February 17, 2017 by rosuna Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 18, 2017 Share #204 Posted February 18, 2017 The big buttons make it possible to use them while an old M6 case is covering the back. No joke, it works. Who wants a touch sensitive screen anyway when your nose is pushing against it the whole time? I quite like touch screens. M camera, viewfinder on the left corner of the camera, right eye to the viewfinder, noce to the left of the back of the camera - doesn't touch the screen ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted February 18, 2017 Share #205 Posted February 18, 2017 and it is absurd. hardly absurd... comparing a rangefinder camera to a pocket web browser (with a phone inside) is absurd. Our phones are less phone and more portable input devices...a natural for a touch screen. The Leica M is a fully manual camera and the buttons work very well. There is no doubt that a touch screen could be helpful...even more so with an automatic camera with AF like the T...but to say its absurd is a big stretch. The phone was designed around the touch screen...the M not so much. Its primary functions cant be controlled by a touch screen. Why don't you by a T? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 18, 2017 Share #206 Posted February 18, 2017 I quite like touch screens. M camera, viewfinder on the left corner of the camera, right eye to the viewfinder, noce to the left of the back of the camera - doesn't touch the screen ... The place touch screens I feel have no place, is in cars. I have an older style screen which is not touch and it is just fine. Yes you have to put a little bit of effort into learning the control buttons and rollers round the screen and on the steering wheel but at least once learnt, what you intend to happen does happen and I don't have to take my eyes off the road to change something like the radio volume. I had a hire car, I think an Opel and the touch screen was quite low down on the centre console. It was both difficult, distracting and dangerous to get what you wanted as the car jiggled around on bumpy Italian roads. In the end I usually found I had to stop the car, to achieve what I wanted safely, without taking my eyes off the road for seconds at a time. Another stupid idea foisted on us in the name of progress. Wilson 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted February 18, 2017 Share #207 Posted February 18, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) A M with a retina display and touch screen, and the ability to zoom with the fingers on picture's gallery , definitively YES 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gattamelata Posted February 18, 2017 Share #208 Posted February 18, 2017 My main preference here and now would be a Leica M10 MONOCHROME. I'd buy it on the spot, if it became available soon and not in two or three years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted February 18, 2017 Share #209 Posted February 18, 2017 hardly absurd... comparing a rangefinder camera to a pocket web browser (with a phone inside) is absurd. Why don't you by a T? It is not an apples to oranges comparison. The photographic interface of a camera is the difference between a real camera and a phone. But I am talking about the computer "parameters" of a camera. Those are controlled with a multichoice menu, just like any other operative system (phones and computers) and there is no reason for direct (physical) controls for that in a portable device. I don't buy a T because I don't like AF lenses or APS format. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted February 18, 2017 Share #210 Posted February 18, 2017 The place touch screens I feel have no place, is in cars. I have an older style screen which is not touch and it is just fine. Yes you have to put a little bit of effort into learning the control buttons and rollers round the screen and on the steering wheel but at least once learnt, what you intend to happen does happen and I don't have to take my eyes off the road to change something like the radio volume. I had a hire car, I think an Opel and the touch screen was quite low down on the centre console. It was both difficult, distracting and dangerous to get what you wanted as the car jiggled around on bumpy Italian roads. In the end I usually found I had to stop the car, to achieve what I wanted safely, without taking my eyes off the road for seconds at a time. Another stupid idea foisted on us in the name of progress. Wilson That is not the case with a camera, because if you want to changa a parameter (white balance, formatting a SD card, change the exposure metering modality, etc.) you have to turn the screen on and explore the menu... in any case. The point is: do you need buttons and wheels for that or a touch screen is the most efficient and elegant solution? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted February 18, 2017 Share #211 Posted February 18, 2017 That is not the case with a camera, because if you want to changa a parameter (white balance, formatting a SD card, change the exposure metering modality, etc.) you have to turn the screen on and explore the menu... in any case. The point is: do you need buttons and wheels for that or a touch screen is the most efficient and elegant solution? I can change the settings which are most important to me without looking at the screen. I can operate the buttons with thin gloves. I hate smudged display screens which become harder to read in bright surroundings. I hate touchscreen based user interfaces which I can operate inadvertently with fingers or any part of my face. If I wasn't prone to chimp every tenth or so frame, I'd rather do without a screen. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmod Posted February 18, 2017 Share #212 Posted February 18, 2017 Having played with an M10 + Visoflex EVF for a couple of days ... The only thing I'm left wanting for is the EVF to be integrated into the RF system (and toggleable, of course) ala Fuji x100-style. As much as I love the Visoflex, man it certainly gums up the otherwise gorgeous lines of the machine. I find that when you can shoot at 10,000 ISO and get usable images, being able to focus in near darkness with a summilux is nearly impossible without some electronic assistance. Having that be right there, right in the eyepiece seems like a natural next step. (Plus the usual ISO boost and maybe a few more megapixels to keep the inevitable monster smartphones at bay.) 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted February 20, 2017 Share #213 Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) I don't know who is Roy P here https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170127_1058-IsLeicaViable.html ... but spot-on ! Roy P : This would be my open letter to Andreas Kaufman: 1. Stop pretending Sony is a competitor. You have a 0.5% market share in photography, compared to Sony, which has some 20+% market share, and is a supplier of image sensors to camera makers ranging from Apple (iPhone, iPad) to PhaseOne (100MP). The list includes Nikon, Pentax and Hasselblad. 2. Visit Sony, get an audience with Hirai san (CEO), if possible, and work out a sourcing deal for Sony’s flagship 35mm FF sensors, as they become available. Remember to bring a pair of knee pads to the meeting. 3. To the RF purists, offer M cameras with the RF. But for those who don’t care for it, see if you can use the same space used by the RF to install a fast, high res EVF. 4. Upgrade other parts of the camera, like a retina-grade LCD back, scratch-resistant gorilla glass cover, a few customizable buttons (not the idiotic S / SL interface), fast processor, 5-axis image stabilization, pixel shifting, weather proofing, etc. 5. Shut down all other R&D, anything not related to the M system. Sell the S lens designs and technologies to either Hasselblad or Pentax. Get rid of the silly SL line before you are laughed out of the market, after sinking a lot more money into it. 6. Offer the M in at multiple resolutions (24, 36, 42, 50+ MP) with different prices, by essentially continuing to sell older models at lower prices. Offer other M variations (monochrome, limited editions, psychedelic colors, pearl capped shutter release buttons, etc. for the luxury end of the market). 7. Build up the M lens line, which has been stagnant for years now. Perhaps a 75 or 85mm Summilux, a 135mm f/2, a couple of ultra wide angles, a 16mm fisheye, a 100mm macro, maybe a 70-200mm f/4 zoom, and a few more compact f/2.8 and f/4 lenses. 8. Continue to make your specialty lenses for niche markets (cine, Micro 4/3, Leicasonic cameras) as your only non-M business. 9. Get some serious help in improving production quality and reliability of your gear, so things don’t fall apart after a couple of years of serious use. Engineer products not just for clever design and aesthetic appeal, but also for rugged performance year after year. 10. Invest some serious money into a better service infrastructure. Sell a priority service plan membership for $100 a year – I am sure a lot of customers would be willing to pay that. Above all, increase repair turnaround times from months to days. Now you have a very sharply focused (pun intended) and highly defendable boutique company, but one that you can really excel in, and stay on top of your game, and that gets your customers delighted. You are also going to be far, far more profitable. Edited February 20, 2017 by siangue 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted February 20, 2017 Share #214 Posted February 20, 2017 I don't know who is Roy P here https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170127_1058-IsLeicaViable.html ... but spot-on ! Roy P : It is easy to advise others how to run a business.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 20, 2017 Share #215 Posted February 20, 2017 There are a lot of us who rather like the SL. As a rangefinder user for 50+ years, I bought the SL with some trepidation, fearing I might only rarely use it. The exact opposite has been the case and it is my digital RF's that rarely get used now. In fact I use my film RF's now more than I do my digital ones. The AF was not brilliant to begin with but a couple of FW updates sorted that and it is now as good as any and with the very convenient and easy to use joystick, better than most. The SL is sufficiently good to discourage me from buying the M10, as I think I would just not use it enough to warrant the cost. The M11, when it arrives will need to be very good to make me change my mind. I would rather spend the money filling in gaps in my film RF collection. With the money I saved not getting the M10, I have recently bought a Graflex Combat Graphic 70mm film rangefinder (The Texas Leica) and at the other end of the size scale, an O series Leica replica. Wilson 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 20, 2017 Share #216 Posted February 20, 2017 The place touch screens I feel have no place, is in cars. I have an older style screen which is not touch and it is just fine. Yes you have to put a little bit of effort into learning the control buttons and rollers round the screen and on the steering wheel but at least once learnt, what you intend to happen does happen and I don't have to take my eyes off the road to change something like the radio volume. I had a hire car, I think an Opel and the touch screen was quite low down on the centre console. It was both difficult, distracting and dangerous to get what you wanted as the car jiggled around on bumpy Italian roads. In the end I usually found I had to stop the car, to achieve what I wanted safely, without taking my eyes off the road for seconds at a time. Another stupid idea foisted on us in the name of progress. Wilson I fear that time is behind us, Wilson. Last night I counted the number of buttons and switches and reached a staggering 104! I probably missed a few too. The steering wheel alone has 14, not counting the overcrowded stalksStill it needs a touchscreen with multIayered menus for the system settings, audio controls, power management information and navigation. If those would be physical switches it would easily add another hundred, making the thing look like the cockpit of the original Concorde. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 20, 2017 Share #217 Posted February 20, 2017 I don't know who is Roy P here https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170127_1058-IsLeicaViable.html ... but spot-on ![/size] Roy P : I know it is unlikely on DL's site, mostly the weird items are meant seriously, but I think this one is actually supposed to be a joke. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted February 20, 2017 Share #218 Posted February 20, 2017 I know it is unlikely on DL's site, mostly the weird items are meant seriously, but I think this one is actually supposed to be a joke. This is what I have read more realistic about Leica , helas ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 20, 2017 Share #219 Posted February 20, 2017 I'm sure that the management and Mr. Kaufmann who turned Leica into a flourishing company from the brink of bankruptcy will have a good laugh about this. However, the post of Leica CEO is vacant, so this Roy is free to send his CV in. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted February 20, 2017 Share #220 Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) I'm sure that the management and Mr. Kaufmann who turned Leica into a flourishing company from the brink of bankruptcy will have a good laugh about this. However, the post of Leica CEO is vacant, so this Roy is free to send his CV in. you are right , Leica will be soon a company like Dior and Chanel the M lenses are fantastic we need a modern body for them Edited February 20, 2017 by siangue Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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