Availability?

[enboe]

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Greenwell,

 

I'd hang on to one of the two bodies, likely the M240 as it would give access to your lenses, until the M10 is in hand.  The M240's are pretty much depreciated out now, so you will not be losing much by keeping it for a few more weeks or months.

 

Eric

[Rupert Greenwell]

Eric

 

I am lucky to have a Monochrom , by selling the 240 on  commission it will be better than part ex. The Q was not for me, I do a bit of cycling and it was too big, I prefer to carry a Ricoh Gr. I tend to switch to film at this time of year, longer days and better light, I have a M4 and MP that I am looking forward to using again and a Hasselblad too. I use digital more over the winter months.

 

Rupert

[roverover]

So if they can't continue to sell the 240 at the old price point but they don't want to discontinue it, why not just lower the price instead of offering a limited time rebate? It sounds more like the rebate is a prelude to discontinuing it and they're trying to sell as many of them as they can beforehand. Lots of companies do it. It's common practice for car manufacturers.

 

I don't feel that this 240 argument affecting M10 deliveries belongs in an M10 "Availability Thread" as i do Not feel the 2 topics are at all related, but for the sake of the argument, I thought i'd share this for anyone who may not have seen or remembered any of this.

Interestingly, Leica has had at least 2-3 previous M240 camera and lens combo Promotions since the model was introduced in 2013. (and the 240 is still available today).

 

There was 1 in 2014/15, 2016 (was extended), and now again in 2017.

I bought mine in spring/summer of 2016 on the $750 rebate (Thank You Leica), and there wasn't a Lens discount offered on that Trade-Up promotion. (although an actual "Trade" was NOT required)

 

(2014) http://www.streetshootr.com/750-instant-rebate-leica-m-240-u-s-canada/

 

(2015) http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/04/leica-m-typ-240-and-m-lens-promotions-extended

 

(2016) http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2016/06/leica-usa-offers-m-camera-trade-up-promotion-with-750-rebate/

 

I mentioned earlier that I for one have no knowledge of the complex inner workings of Leica or it's business acumen, but to me, the M10 roll out seems normal for Leica as do the occasional promotions.

News flash ... WAIT long enough and the M10 may likely have a similar promotion. 

Thank You Leica.

Edited April 9, 2017 by roverover

[NDOC]

I don't feel that this 240 argument affecting M10 deliveries belongs in an M10 "Availability Thread" as i do Not feel the 2 topics are at all related, but for the sake of the argument, I thought i'd share this for anyone who may not have seen or remembered any of this.

Interestingly, Leica has had at least 2-3 previous M240 camera and lens combo Promotions since the model was introduced in 2013. (and the 240 is still available today).

 

There was 1 in 2014/15, 2016 (was extended), and now again in 2017.

I bought mine in spring/summer of 2016 on the $750 rebate (Thank You Leica), and there wasn't a Lens discount offered on that Trade-Up promotion. (although an actual "Trade" was NOT required)

 

(2014) http://www.streetshootr.com/750-instant-rebate-leica-m-240-u-s-canada/

 

(2015) http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/04/leica-m-typ-240-and-m-lens-promotions-extended

 

(2016) http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2016/06/leica-usa-offers-m-camera-trade-up-promotion-with-750-rebate/

 

I mentioned earlier that I for one have no knowledge of the complex inner workings of Leica or it's business acumen, but to me, the M10 roll out seems normal for Leica as do the occasional promotions.

News flash ... WAIT long enough and the M10 may likely have a similar promotion. 

Thank You Leica.

 

This is a discussion about availability, so clearly it belongs on the availability thread. What you say about the earlier 240 promotions is true, but you conveniently leave out the fact that they didn't follow the release of a next generation digital M body. The 240 was followed by the M-P and the M-D and the 262 which were all variants of the original 240 design. The M10 is a completely new animal. And just as the M9 killed off the M8 and the 240-series killed off the M9 (except for the 1st gen Monochrom, which was based on the M9), so too will the M10 kill off most if not all of the models based on the 240. Leica now has too many digital M bodies in their lineup and it's doubtful that can be justified by demand, particularly since video capability is now better covered by the vastly superior SL.

[ivancook]

Some are out there! I just picked up a silver one at a dealer in Houston yesterday. (Thanks Andy at Houston Camera Exchange!!) Date on the box was 2017/03/13 and it arrived at the dealer on 2017/04/04. They have a waiting list for black, but this silver was just waiting for me to find it.

[roverover]

This is a discussion about availability, so clearly it belongs on the availability thread. What you say about the earlier 240 promotions is true, but you conveniently leave out the fact that they didn't follow the release of a next generation digital M body. The 240 was followed by the M-P and the M-D and the 262 which were all variants of the original 240 design. The M10 is a completely new animal. And just as the M9 killed off the M8 and the 240-series killed off the M9 (except for the 1st gen Monochrom, which was based on the M9), so too will the M10 kill off most if not all of the models based on the 240. Leica now has too many digital M bodies in their lineup and it's doubtful that can be justified by demand, particularly since video capability is now better covered by the vastly superior SL.

 

My point is simply based on Your comments and theories. I for 1, and seemingly not alone, do not feel that Leica has intentionally slowed or delayed the Availability of M10 cameras based on inventory or sales of the previous M model.

I am "guessing" here that they will likely leave the M240 in the current lineup until such time as they feel there isn't enough demand for a Digital M body with Video capability. That day has Not arrived. There are other Leica models that can do video, but it's also quite nice to have the ability to use M lenses for video too, assuming zooming isn't needed. Those who do Not want Video, can now buy the M10. Choices are good and that is why there is chocolate AND vanilla on this planet.

 

My comments are based on Your M10 availability theories, of which i just don't agree with, sorry!  I do not claim to know exactly how the Leica machine works in the big picture, but don't agree there is a strategy to "starve" the M10 market whilst they sell M240's.

Maybe you have it backwards, maybe it is all of these LENSES that are being discontinued, after all, they are a big part of the current promotion!   http://leicarumors.com/page/2/

Edited April 9, 2017 by roverover

[NDOC]

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My comments are based on Your M10 availability theories, of which i just don't agree with, sorry!  I do not claim to know exactly how the Leica machine works in the big picture, but don't agree there is a strategy to "starve" the M10 market whilst they sell M240's.

Maybe you have it backwards, maybe it is all of these LENSES that are being discontinued, after all, they are a big part of the current promotion!   http://leicarumors.com/page/2/

 

The lenses are merely sauce for the goose, so to speak. Leica has no reason to discontinue them and lots of reasons to discontinue the 240 series, not least of which is the simple fact that so many used ones are now flooding eBay since the announcement of the M10. But we'll see. I'm only speculating about all of this. Perhaps one day someone with insider access will reveal how Leica's strategy was formulated. 

[Dirk Mandeville]

Your theory makes no sense. Few who are excited about the M10 would instead buy a discounted M240 just because it may take a month or two to get the M10. And few who were buying the M240 to get a brand new discounted Leica camera would change their mind and pay full price for an M10 just because they were readily available. So the idea that Leica would intentionally slow down M10 production to try to sell a few extra discounted M240's makes no sense. Combine that with the fact that the pace of the M10 rollout seems no different than every other digital M rollout, and your theory just sounds kind of silly.

[Eoin]

I would imagine all available camera assembly resources have been busy pre assembling the pre release stock of M10 and continue to be under pressure to meet the current supply shortages.

As to stock levels and sales of type 2xx bodies, I can only imagine Leica has foreseen the demand and adjusted production output well in advance to address its needs. The current sales of new Type 2xx will surely have been affected by the M10 announcement and the lists that followed.

 

Also the "trade in" and private sales of previous M versions as customers upgrade gives a supply of "lesser cost" cameras which may entice new budget conscious users into the Leica fold, but here again Leica have moved to offer the remaining Type 2xx stock with a $2000 rebate assuming you buy a lens at the same time. Very cleaver, a new user needs a lens and a body, Leica are offering you both brand new, for the same price or slightly more than a 2nd hand body and new lens. 

 

I really don't think there is any conspiracy theory here with regard to withholding supply of M10s. I am surprised that demand is so strong and deliveries are being quoted in multiple months time. I know Leica is a boutique brand, but I have very rarely seen another Leica photographer anywhere in my travels.

Emerging Asian markets perhaps, I don't really know. But the M10 seems to have been very popular with long lists given the reports I've read here.

 

But one thing is confusing me, I would have expected to have seen more M9 & Type 2xx enter the 2nd hand markets (forums B&S, eBay) as the users receive their M10s. I am struck by the fact that people are either holding on to what they have, or people have seriously underestimated the amount of cameras Leica can actually produce / supply in any given week.

 

All I know is I'm still waiting for mine and I've largely discounted the NOS & 2nd hand market due to the new body style, functions & accessories compatible with the M10.

[NDOC]

Your theory makes no sense. Few who are excited about the M10 would instead buy a discounted M240 just because it may take a month or two to get the M10. And few who were buying the M240 to get a brand new discounted Leica camera would change their mind and pay full price for an M10 just because they were readily available. So the idea that Leica would intentionally slow down M10 production to try to sell a few extra discounted M240's makes no sense. Combine that with the fact that the pace of the M10 rollout seems no different than every other digital M rollout, and your theory just sounds kind of silly.

 

I'm not saying that Leica has slowed down production of the M10. The M10's rollout may not be that different from the rollout of the 240 in 2013, but it's very different from the rollout of Leica's previous major release last year, the SL. When the SL was announced, Leica also announced the date when it would be generally available, which was exactly one month later. And in fact a month later I was listed as in stock by retailers such as B&H and Adorama. The M10 was announced on Jan. 18 with no announced in stock date and has yet to be listed as in stock by any major online retailer.

Edited April 10, 2017 by NDOC

[Dirk Mandeville]

I'm not saying that Leica has slowed down production of the M10. The M10's rollout may not be that different from the rollout of the 240 in 2013, but it's very different from the rollout of Leica's previous major release last year, the SL. When the SL was announced, Leica also announced the date when it would be generally available, which was exactly one month later. And in fact a month later I was listed as in stock by retailers such as B&H and Adorama. The M10 was announced on Jan. 18 with no announced in stock date and has yet to be listed as in stock by any major online retailer.

Wow. You would almost think the demand for the M series cameras dwarfs the demand for the SL, Q, etc. But no, that's too obvious. Must be something more sinister. I'll bet they're producing tons of them but holding them back, hoping their fans will instead buy a discounted older model camera that gives them less profit margin. Seriously?

[NDOC]

Wow. You would almost think the demand for the M series cameras dwarfs the demand for the SL, Q, etc. But no, that's too obvious. Must be something more sinister. I'll bet they're producing tons of them but holding them back, hoping their fans will instead buy a discounted older model camera that gives them less profit margin. Seriously?

 

Sinister? Getting a little carried away, aren't we?

[pop]

....The M10 was announced on Jan. 18 with no announced in stock date and has yet to be listed as in stock by any major online retailer.

The M10 was in the shop windows by Jan. 18 and could be bought. That certainly qualifies as "in stock".

[Dirk Mandeville]

Sinister? Getting a little carried away, aren't we?

You are the one suggesting that Leica is producing plenty of M10 cameras but intentionally holding back their availability, despite high demand, in order to sell more units of the previous model at a discount. But I'm the one getting carried away? I think you are just not willing to admit that your "theory" is completely silly.

[NDOC]

You are the one suggesting that Leica is producing plenty of M10 cameras but intentionally holding back their availability, despite high demand, in order to sell more units of the previous model at a discount. But I'm the one getting carried away? I think you are just not willing to admit that your "theory" is completely silly.

 

LOL I'm merely floating an idea about what Leica's marketing strategy might be. It's just a camera, not a plot for world domination. And no, I still think it's plausible. Sorry if that gets your knickers in a twist.

[NDOC]

The M10 was in the shop windows by Jan. 18 and could be bought. That certainly qualifies as "in stock".

 

Only in small shops and Leica stores. It has yet to be listed as "in stock" at big online retailers such as B&H and Adorama.

[pop]

Only in small shops and Leica stores. It has yet to be listed as "in stock" at big online retailers such as B&H and Adorama.

Your argument was that Leica did not announce when the item was to be in stock. The product was in stock the day it was introduced: Jan. 18.

It is now sold out as demand exceeds the supply. 

[jdlaing]

Leica doesn't announce "in stock" as far as I remember anyway. That's up to the dealer.

[NDOC]

Leica doesn't announce "in stock" as far as I remember anyway. That's up to the dealer.

 

They did it for the rollout of the SL last year. They announced it would be in stock a month later, and exactly a month later both B&H and Adorama list it as in stock. If Leica can do that for the rollout of an entirely new camera system, why can't they do it for the rollout of a camera body? It seem obvious that the answer is they could if they wanted to.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[NDOC]

Your argument was that Leica did not announce when the item was to be in stock. The product was in stock the day it was introduced: Jan. 18.

It is now sold out as demand exceeds the supply. 

 

It has never been listed as in stock at either B&H or Adorama. B&H has only shipped a handful of M10s to people on their waiting list.