almoore Posted February 3, 2017 Share #241 Posted February 3, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) The difference is that Leica dominate its core business which is photography, they know what you need to operate flawlessly . The others...believe the more butons and dials and programs the better. The day a Japanese manufacturer understand that and make a real photographic tool going straight to the core of "photo taking", Leica would be in trouble...note that two manufacturers went sligthly this route, Pana and Fuji, they both had partnership with Leica. A good photographic tool has to be simple to be effective, and to take good pictures you must master your technic, no automatism is going to replace that, never... If there were any great truth to this it would be something of a mystery as to why so many talented and successful photographers choose to use highly automated Japanese Canon, Nikon and Sony cameras in preference to Leica Ms. Leica make some very nice cameras, but they have no special voodoo that gets to the 'core of photo taking'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 Hi almoore, Take a look here Survey: Interested in the new Leica M10?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
menos I M6 Posted February 3, 2017 Share #242 Posted February 3, 2017 Abomination and monstrosity are two very inappropriate and unjustified words to describe the M240 series. There are many satisfied users who would disagree with your OTT opinion. Furthermore, there is no such camera as a 'proper M' … all Ms differ and for good reasons. Enjoy your Nikon rangefinders and may they prove to be more reliable than other users' experiences suggest. dunk You may want to read my entire post before typing. And yes, abomination and monstrosity are very much appropriate descriptions of the M240 in my opinion. I am very happy for all the users who love them - I don't. … and yes, I am enjoying those Nikon rangefinders plenty and wouldn't know about any issues you are hinting at. They're great, The Best As I read it this thread was a discussion about how potential buyers of the M10 feel about the camera. I offered my opinion earlier in the thread (gushingly positive mind you) and felt it may be useful to share how those feelings did slightly change upon handling a M10 briefly). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom R Posted February 3, 2017 Share #243 Posted February 3, 2017 Not for me, I'm quite happy with my current M240. In truth the camera isn't the limiting factor, but once it becomes the case i will reconsider. I'm beginning to see the real benefit of shooting with a film Leica M: No upgrades required, no obsolescence to worry about - apart from film itself. And, I might add, depending upon the film M you're considering, no worries about batteries either. And ... for the cost of almost any file M camera, you could purchase a few lenses (if needed) and a few years good lab support! (And maybe a down payment on your next basic transportation?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted February 5, 2017 Share #244 Posted February 5, 2017 Is the Leica M10 Tempting me? No, I will be holding onto the Monochrom (CCD version). For color, I've been using the Sony A7RII. I think for some of us, the time finally comes when you just can't keep shelling out the big Leica bucks for the latest camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 5, 2017 Share #245 Posted February 5, 2017 I was very excited about the changes Leica did to the M10 coming from the monstrosity the M240 platform is as a Leica M and was pretty sure that I will pick one up the first chance I have. Yesterday I had a touch and feel of the new camera for the first time in a shop (no cameras were available for purchase though with long waiting lists). I have to say: - great, great new finder - the very biggest improvement about this digital Leica M with the best finder since the 0.85x film body finders (time to offer the digital M with different magnifications again Leica!) - the newer EVF is miles ahead of the chintzy old EVF-2, although I have hardly ever used my EVF on a digital M as it is just a terrible way of seeing for me - the ISO dial is something I am now undecided on (the issue being the too strong detent to lift it - you either have to have it lifted up all the time while shooting and changing ISO frequently or you have to do the "right hand two finger reach around" in order to pull it out with two fingers and be able to change ISO (I shoot only manual ISO on all my cameras and do change ISO very frequently as the light changes as to keep ISO low and have full control over my shutter speeds) After a first play it simply would seem more logical to have stronger ISO detents and NO lock out or have a different designed lockout like on many other manual cameras (center lock button on top of the dial which can be operated much easier and also provides a secure lock against knocking and accidental resetting). A spring loaded button would have been nice - lift it up and twist to set ISO (even with your left thumb only) - completely safe from knocking the setting off too - maybe in the next round of changes. But here is the thing: I didn't feel it, I didn't feel it at all. There was no buying urge whatsoever. Sure the new finder is a fantastic upgrade (this really should be the news #1 on the M10 and most hotly discussed change (not the thinner body, which is nice too but is hardly noticed in actual use). There simply was no moment of "man this is great, I must have one" After having played with it in the shop I actually want it less than after I have read the blurb about the changes on introduction - I am still fully convinced though that this is Leica going into the right direction again after the M240 abomination - letting the M240 die off and keeping the line of proper M cameras continuous is the right thing to do. I hope Leica offers a M10-MM better even a M10-MM-D ASAP so I can replace that M246 I didn't like from the start. Btw - shooting a couple of Nikon rangefinder cameras currently and being very happy about those ;-) Nice review. I felt the same about the ISO dial, but now having had the camera for a couple of weeks, the implementation of the dial is brilliant. Also, just handling the camera in a shop explains why you "didn't feel it." You have to take actual photographs with this camera and see them to understand why it is so nice. Leica nailed it with this one. This one shows how lacking CCD is outside of base ISO and natural light. Give it a second "look." Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted February 5, 2017 Share #246 Posted February 5, 2017 Nice review. I felt the same about the ISO dial, but now having had the camera for a couple of weeks, the implementation of the dial is brilliant. Yay +1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
@ndy_ellis Posted February 6, 2017 Share #247 Posted February 6, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) This will be my first Leica body when my order is fulfilled. Hence comparisons with earlier models are less relevant to me. I did consider an M262 and I'm glad now I didn't order one. I don't value video but I would have felt a bit vulnerable without live view. The simplification of the menu system scores well. The M240 models I held and tried in showrooms felt just that bit bulky; hence I expect I will prefer even this marginally smaller form factor. Having only gone over to mirrorless from DSLR in the last few months with the A7RII I am already enjoying a lighter load and am finding myself using it in manual mode as a preference and as a form of preparation. Fair to say I feel ready for this. It's come along a bit faster than I anticipated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWright Posted February 7, 2017 Share #248 Posted February 7, 2017 I would like to upgrade, but unfortunately, the EVF feature I use most has been omitted on the M10, the electronic level tool. I bought a WATE for the M8 way back when, and then it sat idle for years until the M240 and EV2 allowed proper framing with Live View, and a level to minimize distortion. Now I use it all the time. Street shooters in urban environments may get by with a grid on the M10 because of the availability of vertical and horizontal lines, but in the natural world these are not always available. I’m worried that this is a signal that Leica feels ultra-wide photography belongs elsewhere, and are withdrawing underlying support for its lenses on the M platform. Why else give us access to a better EVF, but withhold the tools we want the EVF for? M ultra-wide lenses work well on the SL, but that camera is hardly an ideal travel camera, being larger, heavier, and intimidating when photographing people. I’ve asked Leica if the tilt-meter hardware is onboard and can be activated, but they have not responded. I won't buy an M10 without the built-in level. Odd thing to leave out, especially since there's some version of a level in the S, SL and Typ240. Sure, it's probably not going be used for most street photography or snap shots, but it's indispensable for landscape (irregardless of lens field of view). And the old standby hot-shoe bubble level option is gone once you add the EVF.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted February 7, 2017 Share #249 Posted February 7, 2017 I won't buy an M10 without the built-in level. Odd thing to leave out, especially since there's some version of a level in the S, SL and Typ240. Sure, it's probably not going be used for most street photography or snap shots, but it's indispensable for landscape (irregardless of lens field of view). And the old standby hot-shoe bubble level option is gone once you add the EVF.... Of course there are lots of bubble levels that don't fit in the hot shoe, and give you level in two directions. You can find one easily for less than $15 and I find them easier to read than an electronic level. The flat top of the M is a perfect place to set one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dempski Posted February 7, 2017 Share #250 Posted February 7, 2017 I wonder if the M10 design team planned the top flat surface as a place for gluing on all the missing features. An add-on spirit level turns landscape photography back into a tedious tripod affair, not an easy hand-held one. Personally, I would also like to slim down to where I was 15 years ago, but not at the expense of removing vital organs. Form is supposed to follow function, not the other way around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted February 7, 2017 Share #251 Posted February 7, 2017 I wonder if the M10 design team planned the top flat surface as a place for gluing on all the missing features. An add-on spirit level turns landscape photography back into a tedious tripod affair, not an easy hand-held one. Personally, I would also like to slim down to where I was 15 years ago, but not at the expense of removing vital organs. Form is supposed to follow function, not the other way around. Well, my take is that If I am handholding then I am happy getting close to level and the grid lines let me get quite close. I can fix any small amount I am off in post processing. If I have to have exact level, then handholding for me will never do and I need to be on a tripod anyway. YMMV, but I see the lack of an electronic level as a tiny issue at most. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandokan Posted February 7, 2017 Share #252 Posted February 7, 2017 Change of heart from me. I tried the M10 today - and I liked it! From the larger viewfinder with higher magnification to the thinner body. Will it replace my SL ... No. But would I buy an M10 Monochrome - Yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dempski Posted February 8, 2017 Share #253 Posted February 8, 2017 I won't buy an M10 without the built-in level. Odd thing to leave out, especially since there's some version of a level in the S, SL and Typ240. Sure, it's probably not going be used for most street photography or snap shots, but it's indispensable for landscape (irregardless of lens field of view). And the old standby hot-shoe bubble level option is gone once you add the EVF.... Good news. Leica Camera Customer Care just replied to my inquiry, and stated: "The missing horizon/level tool is in process and is integrated with one of the next firmware updates." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted February 8, 2017 Share #254 Posted February 8, 2017 I would buy an M10 Monochrom tomorrow. Why Leica does not introduce the Monochrom version simultaneously and instead makes its customer base wait 3 years is beyond me. Very frustrating indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted February 8, 2017 Share #255 Posted February 8, 2017 I would buy an M10 Monochrom tomorrow. Why Leica does not introduce the Monochrom version simultaneously and instead makes its customer base wait 3 years is beyond me. Very frustrating indeed. From the buyer's perspective, I get this frustration. But from Leica's perspective, I totally get why they don't do this. Look how many people are frustrated with the slow rollout of the M10 and associated accessories. Imagine how bad it would be if they were trying to develop and rollout two new models simultaneously. They are not a large company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicauser7 Posted February 8, 2017 Share #256 Posted February 8, 2017 With regard to the level, that would mean that the camera already has embedded within it the physical hardware needed to detect level? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dempski Posted February 8, 2017 Share #257 Posted February 8, 2017 With regard to the level, that would mean that the camera already has embedded within it the physical hardware needed to detect level? Presumably so. My question and comment to Leica Care: Is the hardware onboard, and can the tool be made available with new software? If so, Leica should immediately publicize these plans, else ultra-wide shooters may deem the new M10 to be “Dead On Arrival”. The answer: I would like to thank you for your suggestions and criticism at the Leica M10. The missing horizon/level tool is in process and is integrated with one of the next firmware updates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoanP Posted February 8, 2017 Share #258 Posted February 8, 2017 That is great news about the electronic level. Now, if they would just allow us to turn off Noise Reduction I would buy the M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J12 Posted February 8, 2017 Share #259 Posted February 8, 2017 I enjoy shooting stills with my M7 and greatly prefer film. I look at digital cameras as more of a supplementary convenience or multipurpose tool. A robust video mode and completely silent electronic shutter are 2 features that would interest me. I bought an A7S II specifically for those features, but would ditch it in a heartbeat for a future digital M that offered the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted February 9, 2017 Share #260 Posted February 9, 2017 That is great news about the electronic level. Now, if they would just allow us to turn off Noise Reduction I would buy the M10. lol...this is seriously the criteria to buy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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