jaapv Posted March 1, 2017 Share #261 Posted March 1, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sure, a clear marketing move, but if a manufacturer and a customer move in different directions, there are only other choices left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Hi jaapv, Take a look here So how long before video capture functionality arrives?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted March 1, 2017 Share #262 Posted March 1, 2017 [...] I think they were determined to make the camera thinner, closer to the film M's, and found they couldn't do so and keep video. [...] Size is just an excuse if you ask me. Guess which camera does video below. Leica has simply decided to do a step backwards. Das Wesentliche has won. So much the better for those who like that. Now this thread is about "how long before video capture functionality arrives". My rather sad response is when pigs can fly but i may be wrong. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268395-so-how-long-before-video-capture-functionality-arrives/?do=findComment&comment=3224567'>More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted March 1, 2017 Share #263 Posted March 1, 2017 Size is just an excuse if you ask me. Guess which camera does video below. It's possible you are correct. But you are comparing apples and oranges. Put a optical viewfinder and mechanical rangefinder focusing system in the camera on the left and see what size it ends up being. Next, compare specs (I don't know what camera that is, so don't know the specs). What is the dynamic range of the sensor and what is the frame rate? How big is the buffer? In other words, what are the demands on the processor and how much heat does it need to dissipate? How big is the battery? Again, I'm not saying you are wrong. But your conclusion is not necessarily supported by your comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 1, 2017 Share #264 Posted March 1, 2017 [...] Again, I'm not saying you are wrong. But your conclusion is not necessarily supported by your comparison. I don't try to convince anybody here. I know i have lost already. BTW the little camera above has a 42MP full frame sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 1, 2017 Share #265 Posted March 1, 2017 Size is just an excuse if you ask me. Guess which camera does video below. Leica has simply decided to do a step backwards. Das Wesentliche has won. So much the better for those who like that. Now this thread is about "how long before video capture functionality arrives". My rather sad response is when pigs can fly but i may be wrong. Untitled-1.jpg Exactly! The RX-1 also has a usb port. Do they care how their customers use the camera? No. Do the people who buy the camera care how others use the camera? No. Do people not buy this because it has Video and USB? No. Does it make it any less of a camera having it? No! Infact the RX-1 is one of the cameras I'm considering as a part replacement for my M system. This'll boils down to Leica wanting me to buy an SL. People keep saying "well they can't eat into SL sales" well better of eating into SL sales than get no sales at all. Leica says Das Wesentliche! I say Dasvidaniya! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 1, 2017 Share #266 Posted March 1, 2017 On the Rx1RII....... How good are the 28, 50 and 75mm lenses for that video? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted March 1, 2017 Share #267 Posted March 1, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's possible you are correct. But you are comparing apples and oranges. Put a optical viewfinder and mechanical rangefinder focusing system in the camera on the left and see what size it ends up being. Next, compare specs (I don't know what camera that is, so don't know the specs). What is the dynamic range of the sensor and what is the frame rate? How big is the buffer? In other words, what are the demands on the processor and how much heat does it need to dissipate? How big is the battery? Again, I'm not saying you are wrong. But your conclusion is not necessarily supported by your comparison. When you mentioned it, comparing apples and oranges is always comparing two different things, real question is which one is smaller. There is a web site you can compare various digital camera, if you follow the link you can see difference between two cameras being debated, very revealing. Just in case you are not familiar with Sony it has built-in popup EVF. http://camerasize.com/compare/#638,702 Once you press the link & access the website there is a little navigation panel on the left of the displayed camera specimens to select various orientations. Edit - last paragraph added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted March 1, 2017 Share #268 Posted March 1, 2017 My guess is you would do that once only. https://www.voltaicsystems.com/solar-camera-charger http://blog.leica-camera.com/2010/05/26/martin-hartley-takes-his-mp-to-the-edge-of-the-earth/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp995 Posted March 1, 2017 Share #269 Posted March 1, 2017 Sure, a clear marketing move, but if a manufacturer and a customer move in different directions, there are only other choices left. Yes and it is a really great marketing move from Leica! I'm a friend of a clear product marketing strategy and that is for me (an others) the right way. If you look only a very little bit to the left or right in the world of Internet, you will see that most of the people are happy with Leica's decision to remove video out of the M10. I think that Leica will not implement this strange stuff (BS for a Rangefinder camera) again, as long as a Leica SL is available And if people can't afford a Leica SL, there are a lot of alternatives from Sony & Co! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 1, 2017 Share #270 Posted March 1, 2017 Not a question of can't afford an SL, a question of don't want.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 1, 2017 Share #271 Posted March 1, 2017 http://blog.leica-camera.com/2010/05/26/martin-hartley-takes-his-mp-to-the-edge-of-the-earth/ Thanks I enjoyed the link. OK, Well I concede that -50 is more extreme than I was thinking, I've not personally shot in these conditions where film is the ONLY option and don't really plan to either an all mechanical camera is certainly a wise choice but at these sort of temperature even film is at risk of freezing and snapping in the camera or fogging from static flashes when winding on. It gets to the point where sheet film is best I guess. But the places you listed don't get as low as that do they? Anything -30 is fine with digital cameras, at least some made to withstand it. I have many times shot in very remote locations for weeks on end and I would choose digital every time. Having to lug around and baby unexposed and latent film in excessive quantities in parts of the world where it's likely to be fogged is not something i am personally interested in. But of corse there are some extreme examples where it seems the only option left is film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted March 1, 2017 Share #272 Posted March 1, 2017 Thanks I enjoyed the link. OK, Well I concede that -50 is more extreme than I was thinking, I've not personally shot in these conditions where film is the ONLY option and don't really plan to either an all mechanical camera is certainly a wise choice but at these sort of temperature even film is at risk of freezing and snapping in the camera or fogging from static flashes when winding on. It gets to the point where sheet film is best I guess. But the places you listed don't get as low as that do they? Anything -30 is fine with digital cameras, at least some made to withstand it. I have many times shot in very remote locations for weeks on end and I would choose digital every time. Having to lug around and baby unexposed and latent film in excessive quantities in parts of the world where it's likely to be fogged is not something i am personally interested in. But of corse there are some extreme examples where it seems the only option left is film. I think there are options, and the hypothetical situation presented by jaapv is challenging for anyone (a long? journey into the desert, up the Himalayas, into the Amazon). I should just state simply that the M-A film camera (like the pre-M7s) doesn't need electrical power to operate (there isn't even a light meter). If I were ever to undertake such an adventure (at my age, it's getting less and less likely), I would choose film. Others would go digital, I get that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted March 1, 2017 Share #273 Posted March 1, 2017 When you mentioned it, comparing apples and oranges is always comparing two different things, real question is which one is smaller.Well, if all you care about is size, then you should buy the Sony. I'm sure if Leica replaced the rangefinder mechanism with a popup EVF and attached a fixed lens, maybe bought their sensor and electronics from Sony, they could make an M camera the size of the Sony and even have it do video! But then it wouldn't be an M camera anymore, would it? My point stands that your comparison provides no justification for the assumption that Leica couldn't do video in the M10 because of heat dissipation issues. You simply don't know the design limitations of the electronics Leica had to work with and what their manufacturing capabilities are. Leica is not Sony. And thank goodness, because I'll take the Leica M10 over that little Sony any day of the week. Edit: Even the Leica Q, which is a more apt comparison as it has EVF, fixed lens, and does video like the Sony, is quite a bit larger than the Sony. Which is evidence that Leica's electronics need more space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted March 1, 2017 Share #274 Posted March 1, 2017 I think there are options, and the hypothetical situation presented by jaapv is challenging for anyone (a long? journey into the desert, up the Himalayas, into the Amazon). I should just state simply that the M-A film camera (like the pre-M7s) doesn't need electrical power to operate (there isn't even a light meter). If I were ever to undertake such an adventure (at my age, it's getting less and less likely), I would choose film. Others would go digital, I get that. Of course, if anyone from Leica would like to sponsor someone with a digital Leica and me with an M-A to undertake a month-long trek through the Amazon or the Himalayas or the Kalahari, I could be persuaded and will clear my calendar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted March 1, 2017 Share #275 Posted March 1, 2017 Well, if all you care about is size, then you should buy the Sony. I'm sure if Leica replaced the rangefinder mechanism with a popup EVF and attached a fixed lens, maybe bought their sensor and electronics from Sony, they could make an M camera the size of the Sony and even have it do video! But then it wouldn't be an M camera anymore, would it? My point stands that your comparison provides no justification for the assumption that Leica couldn't do video in the M10 because of heat dissipation issues. You simply don't know the design limitations of the electronics Leica had to work with and what their manufacturing capabilities are. Leica is not Sony. And thank goodness, because I'll take the Leica M10 over that little Sony any day of the week. Edit: Even the Leica Q, which is a more apt comparison as it has EVF, fixed lens, and does video like the Sony, is quite a bit larger than the Sony. Which is evidence that Leica's electronics need more space. I care more about missing or crippled functionality than size. Rather than buying any Sony Alpha camera I would consider Leica SL601 for its universal digital back capability coupled with class leading EVF, however RF functionality coupled with manual focus lens is my first choice and I already run two splendid digital M bodies. Discussion here is that M10 was reduced in size with aim to return M to its roots, that is all good stuff and no doubt great news for many. Assertion that omission of video was attributed to body shrinkage is somewhat weak. What I try to demonstrate (also LCT) that smaller body doesn't automatically means removal of functionality. I don't think that recording video stream needs more electronic components than what is already inside the M10 but it definitely may need bigger capacity battery for long sustained operation. Body design and heat dissipation can be related but there can be design workarounds by placing heat emitting components close to heat sink like body metal shell. I don't wish to repeat myself but for me M10 doesn't provide any significant improvement over M240/246, that is despite all marketing spiel and reviews by Leica champions, functionality I wish for is inherent to SL601. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff S Posted March 1, 2017 Share #276 Posted March 1, 2017 Not heat issues with video on the relatively small Q Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordvik Posted March 1, 2017 Share #277 Posted March 1, 2017 Size is just an excuse if you ask me. Guess which camera does video below. Leica has simply decided to do a step backwards. Das Wesentliche has won. So much the better for those who like that. Now this thread is about "how long before video capture functionality arrives". My rather sad response is when pigs can fly but i may be wrong. Untitled-1.jpg Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268395-so-how-long-before-video-capture-functionality-arrives/?do=findComment&comment=3224934'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 1, 2017 Share #278 Posted March 1, 2017 ??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordvik Posted March 1, 2017 Share #279 Posted March 1, 2017 If you look at the sensor plane , every other camera with interchangeable lenses have much more space behind the sensor plane. Instead of mm, it is cm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordvik Posted March 1, 2017 Share #280 Posted March 1, 2017 If it was so easy to make a slim body with video, why are nobody else doing it? Everybody is complaining about the size of DSLR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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