M8 in the shopping cart: let's talk accessories . . . and financing

[gverdon]

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Timothy, good luck! If you feel it is the M8 you need, go for it and make photographs, photographs of your life, photographs of life, photographs... Again, break a leg.

 

Gérald

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[Eoin]

Timothy,

I'm at a loss to understand what the attraction of the M8 is given the very heavy post processing you apply in the samples you've shown. Surely you can get this effect with a dSLR or other digital camera without breaking the bank?. Granted if the attraction is range finders and digital the choice is limited, M8 or RD-1. But the question is perhaps is it the best choice for the flexibility given the possible subject matter.

 

You are exposing your self to serious debt and potential client talk is cheap and non binding. On the other hand if the M8 is what you want, some times one has to speculate to accumulate. Sometimes one has to push the bounds of normal reasoning to get where they want, I just hope in your case you make the right decision.

 

Good luck!.

[grober]

1. M8 Grip from Leica is mandatory. Of course, extra Leica battery and SD cards of your choice.

2. CV 15mm Heliar and 39mm IR-cut filter because the lens is so much fun for so little cash, why not?

3. More memory, both RAM and hard disk, for whatever computer you choose to view & perfect the images.

4. A well-thought out image back-up startegy that you actually exercise.

5. Lots of extra time (and patience) as you sit huddled over your computer trying to sort out the M8's goofy and often defective white ballance choices.

6. A more expensive printer than you ever thought'd you'd ever need to buy if you have notions of printing large and/or lasting prints.

7. Lots of spare cash to buy the manufacturer's ink for #6. (Third-party ink just ain't worth the gamble.)

 

-g

[Philinflash]

Timothy,

 

Don't listen to the old-fart nay-sayers about the big expenditure. I bought my first Hasselblad when I was in the Army making $87/month (talk about minimum wage!). I did not and do not regret it.

 

That does not mean you have to go top-shelf on accessories. On accessories, you should decide after you have the camera. But B&H doesn't have the most useful Leica accessories anyway. You should look at some of the small specialized vendors mentioned in this Forum, such as www.leicagoodies.com, where the good stuff is.

 

Go for it!

[Eoin]

...Don't listen to the old-fart nay-sayers about the big expenditure. I bought my first Hasselblad when I was in the Army making $87/month (talk about minimum wage!). I did not and do not regret it.....

 

Your tone shows an insight to your attitude.... I'll venture to bet while you were in the army, they provided 3 square meals a day, clothed you and you had a roof over your head. So you had little to worry about except pay back the bill.

Others here offer advice to balance the judgement process possibly based on similar circumstances in the past, hardly rantings of old farts, but rather out of concern.

I take exception to being called an old fart(which I'm not) and am certainly not going to let it pass unchallenged.

[Philinflash]

Your tone shows an insight to your attitude....:.

 

I am sorry you took offense but, as your quoted remark above recommends, my insight on your attitude might be one of hypersensitivity. Another fair inference from my posting would be that I am an old fart, inasmuch as it has been a long time since army pay was so paltry.

 

You may not like my advice and I do not like yours but, in the end, we both have something to offer Timothy and he will be the final arbiter of what is best for him.

[Guest sirvine]

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I just don't see why anyone would need an M8 to start making money with photography. Much better to use DSLR or R-D1s to make enough to buy an M8, then sell the DSLR/R-D1s at a minimal (if any) loss and enjoy that camera properly.

 

As others have said, there are myriad hidden costs for digital photography beyond bodies and lenses, esp. for someone who is selling their work. Printers, ink, disk space, etc. are all already mentioned. Also, what to do if the camera is not working properly on the day of a paying shoot?

 

I'm all for indulging folly in the face of reactionary advice...except when it comes to going into debt ata young age. Things were a little different in your army days...we didn't have the kind of corporate loan sharking aimed at young people that we have today. I deal with this problem in my work, and it is very, very serious. Timothy mentioned that he has some credit issues, more evidence to my point. This can actually ruin your productive earning years and, when the time comes that you wish to own a house (yes, an appreciating asset!), it could be too late.

 

SO! How about one of you old farts steps up and leases this eager, bright, talented, creative young man the use of your extra M8 (or perhaps another body) while he works hard to get one for himself? That's gonna do wonders for your karma...

[ken_tanaka]

Timothy,

 

Don't listen to the old-fart nay-sayers about the big expenditure. I bought my first Hasselblad when I was in the Army making $87/month (talk about minimum wage!). I did not and do not regret it.

 

Go for it!

I wonder if you would offer the same guidance if Timothy was your grandson.

[Philinflash]

I wonder if you would offer the same guidance if Timothy was your grandson.

 

I hope so.

[Philinflash]

...Things were a little different in your army days...we didn't have the kind of corporate loan sharking aimed at young people that we have today. ...

 

That is very true; we had no one making loans to us at all. I don't know if that was better, however. If you are expert in the field of consumer finance, you may appreciate that debt can facilitate one's aspirations if properly managed.

 

I am prepared to give Timothy the benefit of the doubt in expecting that he can handle it.

 

You guys are quite rational; I'm just glad I wasn't taking your advice when I bought the Hassie, an act that was not rational.

[Eoin]

...You may not like my advice...

 

I have no problem with the advice you offer, balance is always a good thing, you are entitled to your opinion. But I do have a problem being referred to as an old fart and the derogatory inference implied. Perhaps I am sensitive, but then again I'm not used to such language being used here to describe other forum members.

 

I apologise in advance to other contributers on this thread for taking it off topic,

[carstenw]

What are you young farts talking about anyway?

[Guest sirvine]

There is such a fine line between "rational actor" / "reactionary also-ran" on the one hand, and on the other hand "risk-taking visionary" / "delusional destitute".

 

I *do* recognize the positive role of consumer in making dreams come true. It's the example of the film student who financed his first picture on ten credit cards, and then went on to become a Hollywood legend. (There are a few of those, I think.)

 

Every successful person was called crazy at some point. But what distinguishes the winners from the losers is the same in life and card games: picking the right moment to put all your chips in!

[dseelig]

I would go 15 voigt 25 voigt and a 50 voigt nokton a 35 would be nice but the 50 nokton is a nice portrait lens the 25 a nice walk around lens the 15 good for wideangle get the zeiss ifnders now that the price is pown check popflash for lens prices and Ialthough I owna sandisk exteme 11 I would go get the the ultra . I have had less problems with sandisk then any other brand and I ahve used lexar and transcend as wwell aas sandisk . I would check popfalsh for a zeiss 25 and don't ot be afraid of ebay to save a few bucks Good luck Happy shooting David

[carstenw]

I would go 15 voigt 25 voigt and a 50 voigt nokton a 35 would be nice but the 50 nokton is a nice portrait lens the 25 a nice walk around lens the 15 good for wideangle get the zeiss ifnders now that the price is pown check popflash for lens prices and Ialthough I owna sandisk exteme 11 I would go get the the ultra . I have had less problems with sandisk then any other brand and I ahve used lexar and transcend as wwell aas sandisk . I would check popfalsh for a zeiss 25 and don't ot be afraid of ebay to save a few bucks Good luck Happy shooting David

 

Last edited by dseelig : Today at 10:29 PM. Reason: spelling

 

That last line got me, sorry David I wonder what your post looked like before you fixed the spelling?

[timd.]

by the way:

i'm psychologically ready to order a porsche 911.

i feel that this is the only thing i need right now to complete my inner self. however, there's the weak point about it: financing.

considering that my bank won't loan me anything, and that working at mc d's doesn't really improve that situation, some of you might think that my decision may not be a wise one.

but i've done a lot of thinking before posting here.

our local sportscar-dealer started a so-called 'happy spring' programme: 'drive in spring-pay in autumn'

using the porsche, i could start working right on time instead of being late and being fired therefor. i could even work extra hours and be home earlier than now. on the way home i could help my old grandmother do her shopping - guess what: she promised to give me 50 cents everytime i did so! things look better seeing it that way, don't they?

 

so come on, encourage me. don't be old farts

 

-i guess timothy is doing quite some ROFL reading the arguments growing here. how come he doesn't show up here any more?

[timothy]

Timothy, a young person with limited financial resources or prospects needlessly taking on $6,000+ of unsecured, high-rate debt is just plain 20-something stupid. Really stupid.

 

Ken, "Bill Me Later" agrees with you. The bank declined my transaction. No Leica M8 for now.

 

Question: What do you think of the young-person-with-limited-financial-resources-taking-on-debt success stories like Zana Briski, co-director/co-writer of Born Into Brothels? In your view, was Zana really stupid but lucky?

 

Excerpt from http://www.landmarktheatres.com/mn/bornintobrothels.html

 

When Zana returned six months later to New York City, she was bursting with excitement about the kids and the class. She felt that their stories and the photo class should be documented in some way.

 

I remember telling Zana, “Look, if you want to go and spend all your money [she had none] to enter the dubious arena of documentary filmmaking for years to come, feel free. As for me, I will stay in New York, focus on my career and become a cameraperson.”

 

But Zana seemed to know me better than I knew myself. I guess she knew there was a filmmaker somewhere inside of me, and it just needed a good reason to come out. Before leaving again for Calcutta, she bought two video cameras on her credit card. She gave me one for my birthday, and took the other one with her to Calcutta.

 

Two weeks later, Zana’s first four videotapes arrived from Calcutta for me to “critique” (she had never shot video before). Within the first ten minutes of viewing the first tape, I knew I was going to Calcutta. The footage was breathtaking—these “children of prostitutes,” these glorious kids, these brilliant rays of light, smiling, laughing, taking photos. I was floored. I was hooked.

 

Three weeks later I was in Calcutta making this movie with Zana.

[Chuck Hatcher]

...the example of the film student who financed his first picture on ten credit cards, and then went on to become a Hollywood legend...

 

If he hadn't been successful, we might be saying he "blew the money" rather than "financed his first picture"! Often we don't know in advance whether such an "investment" will pay off, and it's never hard to find people that will caution against taking such a risk.

 

I can think of many riskier purchases than a shiny new M8, and if that's what it takes to stoke the enthusiasm for this budding new career, I would be the last to object. Andrew Carnegie said, "Put all your eggs in one basket, and watch that basket!" What will make or break the plan is commitment. If not 100% committed, that is, if you make backup plans, contingency plans, hold back for emergencies, etc., then you are less likely to succeed. And if you are 100% committed to the plan, why wouldn't you use all available resources (including debt) to make it work?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Guest sirvine]

Oh never mind. He posted while I was speculating about where he was....

[larry]

Timothy,

 

Somehow I get the feeling that you'll succeed at whatever you do.

 

Larry