Help me create a Lens Kit for the M-A

[MarkP]

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I was going to recommend the 28+50 combo to him. That's the combo I am having a lot of fun with on the Leica M-A lately. And that's even though I used to dislike the 28 mm focal length. But over the last couple of years, I am gravitating towards shorter lenses—from 35+50+90 to 35+75 to 35+50 ... and now 28+50. And, to my own surprise, the 28 mm even gets significantly more use than the 50 mm. By the way, the 28-mm frame lines are easier to see and to use in the M-A's viewfinder than in the digital M models' viewfinders.

 

 

Exactly the combination that the OP wrote that he has used for almost all of his photography to date.

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[jip]

For me it was 28 Summicron and 50 Summilux ASPH. 

[pgk]

FWIW a 3 lens kit can cover a lot of situations - its my preferred way of working although I have a few in reserve should I have specific aims in mind. I often travel with 21/35/75 or 21/35/90 - a personal choice either of which work very well for me. Some will say that 'closer' focal lengths are still significantly different and I wouldn't disagree so 28/35/50 will suit some well. Its easier to suggest focal lengths to avoid and I'd certainly avoid anything wider than 21 or onger than 90mm unless you have very specic requirements for either but between 21 and 90 you have a good choice and really need to think carefully about how you intend to use lenses in order to determine which will suit you best.

 

As you already have the 35 Summarit, a 75 Summarit would be a good compliment and if you don't want too wide a lens then 24 Elmar or 28 Aspheric Elmarit would give you a very workable set indeed. Forget old versus new - whilst I really like older lenses I find them suitable for specific images whilst newer lenses are superb all-rounders. Don't forget though, that this is my opinion based on how I work. Only you can decide which selection will fulfil your needs best. Leica don't make anything other than superb lenses these days so whatever you go for, if its current or near current, will be fabulous.

[FrozenInTime]

Not sure I would recommend a 75mm for then M-A

The 75mm framelines on the M-A are just tiny specs in the corners

[enboe]

Pardon a silly response, but may I make a recommendation?

 

The year of use of the 35mm is a good strategy.  During that year, make note of how often you find yourself walking closer or backing up.  Closer = a 50, 75, or 90 lens.  Backing up = 21, 24, or 28 lens.  Generally happy with 35 = save for that M digital.

 

Of course a rental or borrow might be useful too before you buy.

 

Eric

 

[lencap]

Thank you again for the replies.  There seems to be some resistance to the Summarit lenses on the web - comments like "good, but the less well built brand from Leica", or "good value, but for a few dollars more you can get a Summicron or Summilux and be done".  

I only have experience with the 50mm Summicron and 28mm Elmarit f/2.8 lenses.  Both are 39mm diameter, and I deliberately paired them to share filters and have a common size.  I used the lenses on my M7 and M9, and frankly never felt that I was missing anything by not having the Summilux versions of these focal lengths, but I am a novice to Leica.  

I had planned to expand upon my Summarit 35mm lens, possibly adding 50/75 or even the 90, but from some other comments I wonder if my intended direction is a good choice.  Do any of you have "buyers remorse" about not having the faster apertures of the Summilux/Summicron lenses?  I had hoped to use my M-A largely outdoors, hopefully in good light, and instead of at wide open apertures I anticipate using f/5.6 to f/8 for many shots.  I thought that coupled with the 35mm focal length Summarit lens that combination would give me wide depth of field and be suitable for closer in landscapes or tighter shots of larger scenes.

 

I've not fully thought about all of my intended shooting, but the primary question I have is whether or not investing in the new Summarit line of lenses will work for me.  Your thoughts?

[otto.f]

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I found the Summilux 50 asph a gorgeous lens on film, amazing even

[01af]

There seems to be some resistance to the Summarit lenses on the web—comments like "good, but the less-well-built brand from Leica" ...

Yawn ... yes, this kind of resentments comes from those who just parrot what they have read on the 'net from people who judge lenses from reading brochures. As a matter of fact, apart from lens speed the current Summarit-M line of lenses is in no way inferior to the Summicrons or Summiluxes—in some aspects, they actually are superior.

 

 

... and frankly never felt that I was missing anything by not having the Summilux versions of these focal lengths, but I am a novice to Leica.

You may be novice to Leica but obviously you are able to assess lens quality properly.

 

 

... the primary question I have is whether or not investing in the new Summarit line of lenses will work for me. Your thoughts?

If you can do with a lens speed of 1:2.4 then they will do. Otherwise, not. As simple as that.

[wattsy]

Not sure I would recommend a 75mm for then M-A

The 75mm framelines on the M-A are just tiny specs in the corners

 

 

Yes (as are the 135 frame 'lines'). One of the things I like about the M-A.

[earleygallery]

The Summarits are a perfect example of why Leica shouldn't bow to pressure to produce 'cheaper' products.

 

There have been many threads over the years saying Leica must release an economy M. But if they make a less expensive alternative such as the Summarits, the product is shunned as being cheap & less deserving of the serious photographer.

 

People really don't want 'cheap' Leica gear (not that a Summarit is cheap by any other normal standards or indeed could be considered as low quality).

[Mute-on]

If you have experience of three modern Leica lenses and three modern bodies, including one digital, you are hardly a Leica novice!

 

Have you kept the other lenses and bodies? If so, you already have an excellent Leica "kit" of three lenses and bodies to match! As one who generally avoids changing lenses, this is an ideal arrangement for me. However, even as a film only kit, an M7 and M-A is an excellent combination. Two bodies, 28 and 50. One body, 35. No lens changing distractions, just get out and shoot.

 

I suspect if you can't identify what you need to add, you may not need to add anything other than more time taking photographs, and less time worrying about equipment.

 

All the best

 

J

[lencap]

Again, thanks to everyone.

 

It seems to me that separating the facts from opinions about Leica gear is a challenge, understandably so.  I don't expect to be able to evaluate any specific lens without having a bias of some type, whether created by advertising, opinions or other reasons.  My intent is merely to gather enough information to make an educated purchasing decision based upon my needs.

 

It seems to me that if I find the Summarit lens speed sufficient for my needs I have likely found the right lens for me.  That sounds like good advice, and as the previous poster correctly and ironically notes, it's hard to accept that Leica has listened and created what we asked for, yet we continue to challenge if it's merely "good enough" instead of being a "real Leica".  For me, it seems silly to ignore the quality and relatively modest price of these lenses in search of something that I may or may not ever be able to see in real world photographs.  In the "old days" my largest prints were 11x16 or so.  That seems to be well within the capabilities of my own skill of maintaining proper focus, and the resolving power of the lens and film combination.  For anything smaller than 11x16 or so I may never see the difference.  

When playing with my old M9 files, I realized that even on an iMac 27" retina display (color optimized) the maximum resolution was under 15MB, about the resolution of my RAW file.  And with that massive screen resolution I frankly found that focusing errors, chromatic aberration and other "flaws" in my Summicron 50mm lens was very hard to find on the monitor unless I was very close to the screen.  To see that resolution in a print would require quite a large print, not something I'm likely to do often, if ever.

 

Seems to me that the 35mm Summarit that I just bought will be a fine start with my M-A, and after taking time to learn how to best use that lens there is plenty of time to decide on "next steps".

 

I realize from your posts and replies that I was getting lost in details and specs, forgetting the point of all of that - to create an image in my mind and render it as a finished photograph to hold in my hand.  And since most of the photographs I intend to start with will be black and white, taken in well lit conditions, I expect the limiting factor in my upcoming photography will be my skill, not the technical limitations of the Leica M-A, the Summarit 35mm lens, the film I select, or the processing and printing of the negatives and final photographs.

 

Thanks to everyone for the help in reaching this decision - I don't think I had enough perspective to reach this conclusion without your help.

 

PS:  Following the last post I thought I'd add that I had sold my M7 & M9 a few years ago, along with my lenses, frustrated that I was unable to transfer my mental images into photographs that looked anything like I hoped they would.  I realized a short time ago after reconnecting with my Nikon F3 HP that the ability to take nearly unlimited digital images actually hurt my creative skills.  I would take dozens of images of my subject, but when I got them into LightRoom I realized my shot disciple was very poor (not well framed, unclear subjects, "bokeh" over subject clarity, etc.), and the amount of time I spent trying to post-process essentially poor images was a waste of time and frustrating.

 

My return to the M-A is an attempt to "get back to basics", and a recognition that I like holding negatives in my hand and feeling their texture.  It's not "scientific", or measurable, but for me at least the haptics matter.  I also learned a valuable lesson - if you buy Leica gear, keep it.  Eventually you'll realize your initial decision was correct, and when you realize that and then have to replace what you already owned, you realize that "GAS" is an expensive diversion from photography.

 

Again, my thanks.

[IkarusJohn]

So you sold your 50 Summicron & 28 Elmarit when you sold your M9 & M7, right? You only have the 35 Summarit now?

 

With your M-A and 35 as a base, I'm not sure I would worry about a lot of pixel peeping, techno-babble you read on the inter-web. Framing, composition and contrast balance is way more important than the subtleties of lens rendering, and an M-A, Tri-X and a good 35mm Summarit, I'd have thought you will gain a lot in shot discipline, as you say.

 

Lenses to add in the future will depend a lot on your results, provided lens selection doesn't adversely affect your shot discipline. If 35 remains your base, then logically either 75mm (which I use) or 50 & 90 at the long end and 21 at the wide. Of those focal lengths, everything I read about the 21 Super-Elmar f/3.4 is glowing, I own the 50 Summilux ASPH and it's fabulous, the 75 Summilux is also very good (if you can find an affordable one) and the 90 Summicron also very good.

 

Were it me, I'd stick with the 35, then think about adding a 21, then perhaps a 75, and try to leave it at that ... but then my 50 Summilux tends to live on my M-A.

[Mark T]

Two lenses are perfect. Summarits are fine. I use 35 and 90 2.5 versions and am happy. Use the 35 mm most of the time and when you can't get close enough, use the 90 mm. Keep it simple and have fun with it.

[otto.f]

Again, thanks to everyone.

 

It seems to me that separating the facts from opinions about Leica gear is a challenge, understandably so.  I don't expect to be able to evaluate any specific lens without having a bias of some type, whether created by advertising, opinions or other reasons.  My intent is merely to gather enough information to make an educated purchasing decision based upon my needs.

 

It seems to me that if I find the Summarit lens speed sufficient for my needs I have likely found the right lens for me.  That sounds like good advice, and as the previous poster correctly and ironically notes, it's hard to accept that Leica has listened and created what we asked for, yet we continue to challenge if it's merely "good enough" instead of being a "real Leica".  For me, it seems silly to ignore the quality and relatively modest price of these lenses in search of something that I may or may not ever be able to see in real world photographs.  In the "old days" my largest prints were 11x16 or so.  That seems to be well within the capabilities of my own skill of maintaining proper focus, and the resolving power of the lens and film combination.  For anything smaller than 11x16 or so I may never see the difference.  

When playing with my old M9 files, I realized that even on an iMac 27" retina display (color optimized) the maximum resolution was under 15MB, about the resolution of my RAW file.  And with that massive screen resolution I frankly found that focusing errors, chromatic aberration and other "flaws" in my Summicron 50mm lens was very hard to find on the monitor unless I was very close to the screen.  To see that resolution in a print would require quite a large print, not something I'm likely to do often, if ever.

 

Seems to me that the 35mm Summarit that I just bought will be a fine start with my M-A, and after taking time to learn how to best use that lens there is plenty of time to decide on "next steps".

 

I realize from your posts and replies that I was getting lost in details and specs, forgetting the point of all of that - to create an image in my mind and render it as a finished photograph to hold in my hand.  And since most of the photographs I intend to start with will be black and white, taken in well lit conditions, I expect the limiting factor in my upcoming photography will be my skill, not the technical limitations of the Leica M-A, the Summarit 35mm lens, the film I select, or the processing and printing of the negatives and final photographs.

 

Thanks to everyone for the help in reaching this decision - I don't think I had enough perspective to reach this conclusion without your help.

 

PS:  Following the last post I thought I'd add that I had sold my M7 & M9 a few years ago, along with my lenses, frustrated that I was unable to transfer my mental images into photographs that looked anything like I hoped they would.  I realized a short time ago after reconnecting with my Nikon F3 HP that the ability to take nearly unlimited digital images actually hurt my creative skills.  I would take dozens of images of my subject, but when I got them into LightRoom I realized my shot disciple was very poor (not well framed, unclear subjects, "bokeh" over subject clarity, etc.), and the amount of time I spent trying to post-process essentially poor images was a waste of time and frustrating.

 

My return to the M-A is an attempt to "get back to basics", and a recognition that I like holding negatives in my hand and feeling their texture.  It's not "scientific", or measurable, but for me at least the haptics matter.  I also learned a valuable lesson - if you buy Leica gear, keep it.  Eventually you'll realize your initial decision was correct, and when you realize that and then have to replace what you already owned, you realize that "GAS" is an expensive diversion from photography.

 

Again, my thanks.

Good reasoning, although I miss an important part and that is, while you're talking about Retina screens in the context of an M-A, a good scanner. I'd say that if you go for Summarits, you save money for real good scanning. You are going to shoot mainly B&W, well silver scanning is for many scanners a hard thing. This is a very important part of the chain

[lencap]

Yes, I did sell my 28/50 lenses when I sold my M9 and M7 bodies - selling anything Leica was a mistake in hindsight.

 

I don't expect to scan film photographs, but rather to enjoy them as pure film media.  The comments about the Retina screens and related tools was just to vent some frustration at my lack of understanding concerning how complex digital processing is, and how over three years of working with LR and PS I never mastered the skills needed to make my images look like finished photographs.  The closest I got was following some dedicated training with Ming Thein - they were helpful for me, but in the end I found that staring at a computer screen to appreciate photography wasn't for me.  I began revisiting museums and admiring the finished print hanging in front of me.

 

That in turn led me to return to film with a fresh perspective, trying to reconnect with the joy of film, and to also return to composition, correct exposure and seeing the finished photograph before I press the shutter release.  With digital I just kept spraying - hoping that one of my many bracketed images would be "the one".  None was.  I convinced myself that digital would be cheaper than film, but when I consider the cost of a new Retina iMac, PS/LR software, and various related learning curves and training tutorials, the digital/film cost analysis became irrelevant.  What was missing was fun and enjoyment.  That's my focus now, and even if my film experiment fails completely, I can enjoy just staring at the M-A as a work of art in itself.

[NB23]

Nothing is more irritating, nothing, than sitting in front of a computer and surf through computer files.

Makes me sick.

[sblitz]

Jumping in late, the first obvious answer is what type of photos do you like to take? landscape? street scenes? portraits? all? Answer truthfully to yourself and lens answer becomes obvious. Personally, I love the 35 for one, 28/50 for two, if my view is to be wider I add a 15 to the 28/50, if I want portrait or landscape I add the 75 or 90 .... wouldn't get too hung up on the summicron/summilux/summarit differences, see what works for you first then see what weight you want to carry (the 75 summicron weighs a ton relative to the 75 summit) and how much you have to spend. Once again, answer that and the right lens(es) become obvious.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jon Pop]

This is one of those 'forum over-analysis' topics, of which there are many opinions (and a lot of them relevant!). For me, I'd just stick with the basics, a three-lens kit. Determine those focal lengths (the way you want to 'see' things) first...while it's true you can make a picture with anything, you know what I mean here.  Then start adding the other variables (filter sizes matching if you want, weight, contrast, other known performance characteristics, etc. etc.). 

 

My two cents is that while I own a 35 Summicron Asph, I've always really liked the 28-50-90 combination. The reason is that there's enough of a 'difference' between each of those as to warrant them...some people love the 35-50-90 combo (for example) but for me 28 has a particular look that I really love (but that's my opinion at the moment, and there's a lot of 35 pics I love too!). My own setup is 28 Elmarit f2.8 Asph (love the tiny size, great contrast and sharpness), 50mm Summicron or 50mm Summilux Asph (depending on circumstance), and since I very (very) rarely use 90, I just have one of those old 90mm Elmar C f4 lenses (crazy value for the dollar, nice and small). I'm sure I'll keep fiddling with this combo thing forever! That's just at this moment! 

[Per P.]

I agree with Jon Pop. The amount of paralysis by analysis is amazing, but mostly entertaining and often informative  

 

Being practical: If you want one lens then pick 35 or 50. For two it is 35/75 vs 28/50. For three it is 24 (or 21)/35/75 vs 28/50/90. Then you can add whatever you might be missing if you see a good offer.

 

Whether you buy Lux, Cron, Summarit or Elmar is a matter of balancing money, size and what you use it for (i.e. need in very inverted commas and with a big smiley). I have a mix myself and all are, in my view, somewhere between great and exceptional.