jaapv Posted December 12, 2016 Share #281 Posted December 12, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) They are adequate as long as one realizes that they can only be auxiliary to the basic concept. For instance, LV and EVF have opened up the M system to a whole world of lenses To many users that is a decisive advance of the M240 over the M9. One should be aware, however, that this is not meant to bring the M240 into direct competition with dedicated TTL-view cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 12, 2016 Posted December 12, 2016 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Whenever the new M arrives, who's going to buy one?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pgk Posted December 12, 2016 Share #282 Posted December 12, 2016 They are adequate as long as one realizes that they can only be auxiliary to the basic concept. For instance, LV and EVF have opened up the M system to a whole world of lenses To many users that is a decisive advance of the M240 over the M9. One should be aware, however, that this is not meant to bring the M240 into direct competition with dedicated TTL-view cameras. And there are many cameras as capable of utilising lots of lenses and which are IMO better suited to doing so. That said, whilst there can be good reasons for adapting lenses, in practice using adapted lenses is often a faff and in my experience can be quite frustrating, and I do question its real world viability in many situations. Been there, done that, will only do it again if it offers an optical advantage that can't be gained in a better way (I do still have an adapted 60mm R lens which has a far greater macro range than any modern IF macro lens - I could have easily used a micro-Nikkor but the 60R was available and it does work very well on my Canons when I need greater than 1:1). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted December 12, 2016 Share #283 Posted December 12, 2016 Hmmm... this has been an interesting discussion and, coupled with Thorstens excellent review of the Leica M - D posted the other day has set me thinking about what I really want... I am very happy indeed with my 240 M-P. Technically, the files are about as good as I need... extra MP isn't going to make a massive difference to me and as far as DR is concerned, again, I'm fine with it as it is. I'm not particularly bothered about the M being a rangefinder, that is NOT the reason I bought one. The reason I went for the M-P was I wanted a digital camera capable of excellent results, using M lenses, in a small(ish) form factor, but most of all, I wanted to have the shutter speed on the camera body, the aperture on the lens and get back to a simple camera I could understand fully and didn't have to go through pages and pages of menu's... I GET how exposure works, and having gone through forty years or so of camera use, I wanted to just have a camera with auto exposure when I wanted it, manual exposure when I wanted it and to just be the same as my previous film cameras... The M was the only one that got close to what I was looking for. If it was AF or TTL it wouldn't have mattered. My starting point was what did I want, and what camera got me closest... that was the M-P 240. Which I bought new the month it was launched. Having used the M-P 240 since November 2014, I bought the right thing. I absolutely love it and although it took a while, I got used to using a rangefinder for focus. I use my M-P very simply, with most things switched off, but there are times when having LV is indispensable. So what would I want in the future? I would like a digital M4 lookalike with aperture priority AE. If they could do AF lenses at much the same size as the current lens range, so much the better. My M-P is as close as I am going to get to that so far, but if Leica managed to build an M4 sized camera, with and without LV models (and corresponding screen and menu on the back) such as the 240M-P and the M-D today, then I would buy one of each... (because as I said, there are times when LV is essential, such as extreme wide or telephoto). Otherwise, I am very happy as I am. There is nothing about my current camera that limits my photography. Which is probably just as well, because I can't see any of this happening for some time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 12, 2016 Share #284 Posted December 12, 2016 Well, I am climbing into the boat from another side. For me the rangefinder experience is essential when suitable for the photography it is designed for. That the same camera can be extended into what used to be SLR territory and can be used for all my lenses is a bonus - but an important one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted December 12, 2016 Share #285 Posted December 12, 2016 And that is what I like about Leica and Leica users... we seem to want very similar things and the compromises each of us has to make to get there are relatively small (and, actually, quite enjoyable). That is why I find it hard to understand sometimes just how animated these discussions get. I think we all know that no-one is going to produce a camera that meets every single one of our prime needs... but the M gets close enough for most of us without compromising too much on actual performance (and by that, I mean the results we get, or that the camera is capable of, not numbers on a spec list). For those of you who haven't yet read it, Thorstens' review of the M-D should be essential reading for all those on this thread... its probably the best overview of the Leica M and why so many of us enjoy using it I have ever seen. (Just noticed, I'm on 999 posts.... My next post needs to be a good one... which means I'll probably not post for a little while as my brain isn't functioning at the level it really needs to be to mark such an auspicious occasion! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 13, 2016 Share #286 Posted December 13, 2016 I get into the boat from both sides. I resonate with both the RF and the simple direct control of the M. Combine that with the small excellent optics of the M lenses and I'm good with the whole system. The RF, for me, is the best way to focus the manual M lenses. The other way is zone focus with the Leica M lenses which are mostly the last of the current lenses that have markings on the barrel. The lenses are the best compact lenses you can buy. I have got a bunch of them. They are the heart of my system. So, how else am I going to focus M lenses any more accurately than a RF? Vernier alignment (RF) is by far the most precise way to focus as compared to any other optical system. Even more precise than EVF systems, which are a type of optical system. I'm ruling out magnified view because it just doesn't work well for manual lenses hand held, for me. Looking forward to a new Leica M. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYBORA Posted December 13, 2016 Share #287 Posted December 13, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is there any information leak about what will be announced on the 18'th of January ? The milestone word makes me think of the new M but it may be the start of a new system, maybe an interchangable non-rangefinder compact full frame camera. I took the risk and put my M 262 and Q on sale for creating budget Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 13, 2016 Share #288 Posted December 13, 2016 No. Leica is being close-mouthed. I am not 100% convinced it is about the M or even a new camera, but it does seem reasonable to suppose so. It is a bit unlikely that there is something coming that would justify selling the Q. And by no means a given that the camera -if any- is aimed at the upgrade market. It could well be designed to draw new customers into the brand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 13, 2016 Share #289 Posted December 13, 2016 It's all guesswork. The announcement from Leica is as compatible with opening a new factory canteen as announcing a new camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted December 13, 2016 Share #290 Posted December 13, 2016 Yes but will there be wi-fi in the canteen ? And what will it be called ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 13, 2016 Share #291 Posted December 13, 2016 The new M was coming in September 2015, the beginning of 2016, before Photokina, at Photokina, after Photokina, November 17th, and now January 18th.... Are we quoting the plackards at Hyde Park Corner announcing the end of the world? Actually the information I get contains an indication that there might be no new camera. OTOH, they already have a canteen... And it certainly is time for one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 13, 2016 Share #292 Posted December 13, 2016 The new M was coming in September 2015, the beginning of 2016, before Photokina, at Photokina, after Photokina, November 17th, and now January 18th.... Are we quoting the plackards at Hyde Park Corner announcing the end of the world? Actually the information I get contains an indication that there might be no new camera. OTOH, they already have a canteen... And it certainly is time for one. OK, then, a Lenny Kravitz version of the canteen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 13, 2016 Share #293 Posted December 13, 2016 I am actually now using my film M's (M4 and CL) more than my digital ones, since getting the SL. I only take my M240 now, when I want to travel light. The SL works so well with M lenses, particularly the Noctilux, that other than weight and the RF, there is little benefit to the M. I suspect I will not be a customer for the next digital M, unless it is extraordinary in some way. An incremental M240 would just not get used enough to warranty the cost. I would rather buy some more of the SL lenses. I am taking my M240 and 35 ASPH Summicron to Berlin later this week. I had to give myself a quick lesson on how it all worked, as it is so long since I last used it other than the odd photo, I had forgotten where for example the zoom image button is (on the front). Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lm_user Posted December 13, 2016 Share #294 Posted December 13, 2016 I would like to see an M wiith: 1). Self calibrating rangefinder* 2) Mode to msp out bad pixels in camera These two features would eliminate most needs to send the camera for service. The long service times for 1 and 2 give me pause for future purchases as long as what I have works * The rumored digital rangefinder could achieve some form of self calibration. It could even be lens specific... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYBORA Posted December 13, 2016 Share #295 Posted December 13, 2016 Actually the information I get contains an indication that there might be no new camera Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted December 13, 2016 Share #296 Posted December 13, 2016 Love my M 240 and regret ever buying any of the other cameras lying around in drawers. All my photographic needs have converged on the M as the camera of choice. As for the next generation: I would like a more concentrated essence of the same thing (so wish all engineers would focus on this rather than "new features" be it automobiles, computers, iphones, whatever). So, slimmer, lighter, faster ... only one correct frame line in the viewfinder. That's about it thanks. Would open my wallet for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 13, 2016 Share #297 Posted December 13, 2016 And there are many cameras as capable of utilising lots of lenses and which are IMO better suited to doing so. That said, whilst there can be good reasons for adapting lenses, in practice using adapted lenses is often a faff and in my experience can be quite frustrating, and I do question its real world viability in many situations. Been there, done that, will only do it again if it offers an optical advantage that can't be gained in a better way (I do still have an adapted 60mm R lens which has a far greater macro range than any modern IF macro lens - I could have easily used a micro-Nikkor but the 60R was available and it does work very well on my Canons when I need greater than 1:1). Well, I find the 240 implementation, for all its limitations, quite adequate for my photography, including wildlife. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgio Posted December 13, 2016 Share #298 Posted December 13, 2016 Not for me, love my MD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 13, 2016 Share #299 Posted December 13, 2016 I will not be disappointed if there is no new M in January. I'm fine with the M240. I am looking forward to a new camera, but for reasons mostly because, I'd like something new. Sounds funny? Well, it is fun to get a new shinny toy when photography is my hobby. I'd rather wait a bit if that means Leica is trying to make a better camera or is waiting on a much better sensor or is working out bugs. I'd probably be disappointed if it just had the same 24MP sensor as the SL with no other improvements. I can wait... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted December 13, 2016 Share #300 Posted December 13, 2016 I will not be disappointed if there is no new M in January. I'm fine with the M240. I am looking forward to a new camera, but for reasons mostly because, I'd like something new. Sounds funny? Well, it is fun to get a new shinny toy when photography is my hobby. I'd rather wait a bit if that means Leica is trying to make a better camera or is waiting on a much better sensor or is working out bugs. I'd probably be disappointed if it just had the same 24MP sensor as the SL with no other improvements. I can wait... I agree, except I still think it's a bit odd that the M is not clearly the best platform for M lenses anymore, with apparently a lot of people now preferring the SL. The M really should be the best choice for M lenses. I hope Leica can reverse this trend because otherwise the M's future might start looking less interesting than it should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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