anickpick Posted November 24, 2016 Share #1 Posted November 24, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) If Leica wants the M line to be successful in the next 4 to 6 years, the next Generation Leica M must be a clear step up from the current M Typ 240: More mp, but also some real innovations (maybe a hybrid viewfinder). Leica Management must be aware of this. The rumored M10 clearly is not that camera: The rumored M10 cannot be the next generation M. I believe the M10 is an M Typ 240 with some cosmetic changes: Slightly thinner Body and an extra Exposure Compensation Dial (and/or ISO dial), but same 24 mp sensor. And it does make sense for Leica to release such an M10, in case the next Generation M is not ready yet. My guess is we have to wait for the next Generation M (which has to be the M11) for at least another year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 24, 2016 Posted November 24, 2016 Hi anickpick, Take a look here Next generation M will be the M11 (not the M10). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted November 24, 2016 Share #2 Posted November 24, 2016 Actually, there have never been "next generation M" cameras, with huge leaps forward since 1954. (Well, maybe the M8 could be said to be the exception). A scenario that is not likely to change soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted November 24, 2016 Share #3 Posted November 24, 2016 Just digital consumers want NEW stuff and features they think to 'need'... Can you tell me what was revolutionary about the M4 compared to an M3? Still it was a vastly succesfull camera People thinking MORE MORE MORE should just stay away from the Leica M system and buy a Sony A7, or the Leica SL, Leica has already noticed this is didn't produce the M262 for no reason. The M262 is a REAL M camera to me where the Leica M (Typ 240) was not (I prefer the M262 over the M240, it's more like my M6TTL, or M9.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted November 24, 2016 Share #4 Posted November 24, 2016 Just digital consumers want NEW stuff and features they think to 'need'... Can you tell me what was revolutionary about the M4 compared to an M3? Still it was a vastly succesfull camera People thinking MORE MORE MORE should just stay away from the Leica M system and buy a Sony A7, or the Leica SL, Leica has already noticed this is didn't produce the M262 for no reason. The M262 is a REAL M camera to me where the Leica M (Typ 240) was not (I prefer the M262 over the M240, it's more like my M6TTL, or M9.) This made me listen to Scooter - Rebel yell (more, more more) :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted November 24, 2016 Share #5 Posted November 24, 2016 less is more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share #6 Posted November 24, 2016 Well, I would say that managing to retain the essence of M in a digital body is quite an accomplishment. A huge step in my books. I sympathise with your view, but look at it differently: If I were Leica I would never ever say "stay away". The goal would be to create such a want in the existing M users that 90 percent of them upgrade. And I would try to attract many new users. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted November 24, 2016 Share #7 Posted November 24, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) M11 will be Leica's first line of casual wear for men and women. Sleek, comfortable and yet classic cut. The perfect outfit to show off your photographic accessories. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 24, 2016 Share #8 Posted November 24, 2016 (Well, maybe the M8 could be said to be the exception). In part because it was said that it couldn't be done. But that was also said about putting an 'uncropped' sensor in a digital M.....eventually the M9. The initial M9 glitches with red edge, cracked sensors and buffer issues supported the notion that it wasn't simple. Some users viewed the M8 to M9 transition as incremental; others viewed it as transformative compared to their M8, allowing full field view with their M lenses. Guess it's all relative. But, yes, it's been more evolution than revolution. Tools, after all. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted November 24, 2016 Share #9 Posted November 24, 2016 if the M10 or 11 it now seems does have at least the following specs : 320 terapixels wifi bluetooth quadruple SD slots dual SSD bay AF 180 fps in continuous mode for 3 hours dishwasher phone another phone 48 inch oled display take photographs because I can't 1/2 inch thick muzak player disco ball ... then I'll keep my stupid M9. There, I've said it. Leica management, you'd better be listening to me !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted November 24, 2016 Share #10 Posted November 24, 2016 Leica now produces a range of bodies that I suspect will be continuously updated with new technology as it emerges. They should satisfy the "More, more, more" crowd. The M is different and appeals to a different user. For the next M I would like to see an improved sensor (dynamic range and ISO), but not necessarily higher resolution. I would also find a selectable electronic shutter very useful as that would permit truly silent operation in venues where that is desirable. Obviously a state-of-the-art EVF, which coupled with the electronic shutter would greatly improve utility with non-rangefinder lenses. I think these upgrades could be incorporated without degrading the appeal of the M to its user base. Another thing I would really appreciate is Leica standardizing on the M form factor so that most (if not all) of the expensive accessories would continue to be usable in the next generation body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share #11 Posted November 24, 2016 +1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsolomon Posted November 24, 2016 Share #12 Posted November 24, 2016 +2, ..... but i would like the ability for spot metering (in addition to classic metering), i currently do this with the EVF-2 accessory but honestly the EVF-2 is not " industrial strength" , i feel like if i catch something on it, bang, or scrape it that the EVF-2 will just break. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted November 24, 2016 Share #13 Posted November 24, 2016 An other pointless thread.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 24, 2016 Share #14 Posted November 24, 2016 In part because it was said that it couldn't be done. But that was also said about putting an 'uncropped' sensor in a digital M.....eventually the M9. The initial M9 glitches with red edge, cracked sensors and buffer issues supported the notion that it wasn't simple. Some users viewed the M8 to M9 transition as incremental; others viewed it as transformative compared to their M8, allowing full field view with their M lenses. Guess it's all relative. But, yes, it's been more evolution than revolution. Tools, after all. Jeff There is an important bit left out of that part-quotation:"with development at the present time" and it was true. An 1.6 crop sensor like the RD1 would not have been acceptable in the M8, the sensor of the M9 was on the edge of technology - with even sensor cracks as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted November 24, 2016 Share #15 Posted November 24, 2016 ... Can you tell me what was revolutionary about the M4 compared to an M3? Still it was a vastly succesfull camera ... The M4 had a rapid rewind crank, an improved (rapid) loading system, and the viewfinder was reduced to accommodate the 35 mm lens. Compared to the M2, the M4 had the same viewfinder but also had framelines for the 135 mm lens. I traded my M2R - which already had the M4 loading system - for a M4 because it had a rapid rewind crank. Turned out the old knob style rewind was just as fast. Still, I carried that M4 from 1969 through 2010. It was a bullet proof camera. Sometimes it pays to have GAS. I passed on the M240 because I was and am perfectly happy with my M9 and original Monochrom. Though I must admit that I was in a roomful of photographers using their M240s and they sure were a lot quieter. Still, a little noise is not enough to spark GAS. But if the new M10 is 36 MP and shoots a decent capture at ISO 3200, I may need to part ways with my trusty M9 and Monochrom... well not the Monochrom... maybe my S2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 24, 2016 Share #16 Posted November 24, 2016 There won't be an M10 or an M11. Leica have decided that all M's will be called the M (and a type number). Yes, it's bloody confusing! Whatever, don't wait expecting something revolutionary. You WILL be disappointed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted November 24, 2016 Share #17 Posted November 24, 2016 There won't be an M10 or an M11. Leica have decided that all M's will be called the M (and a type number). There are signs of a policy reversal http://leicarumors.com/2016/11/13/leica-m10-what-we-know-so-far-from-the-leaked-pictures.aspx/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted November 25, 2016 Share #18 Posted November 25, 2016 Why can't there be a new camera every year? Surely the sensor technology is outdated on a yearly basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchyman Posted November 25, 2016 Share #19 Posted November 25, 2016 Why can't there be a new camera every year? Surely the sensor technology is outdated on a yearly basis. NRE (non recurring engineering). It takes a while for all that Engineering overhead to be paid back. You either have to make the per-unit price sky high or amortize the costs over tens (hundreds?) of thousands of units. And if you say "but it doesn't take much engineering to swap in a new sensor" you'd be wrong. Still have to lay out PC boards. Still have to test first articles. Still have to go though agency testing. Still have to set up and verify manufacturing. Still have to update manuals and sales literature etc. Even minor changes to a product to reduce recurring costs often have a significant chunk of NRE. [My experience isn't in cameras but I don't expect that much difference]. Apple can come out with a new iPhone every year because they sell somewhere between 30 and 75 million units per quarter. When Leica sells that many cameras they'll be able to design a new camera every year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted November 25, 2016 Share #20 Posted November 25, 2016 There are signs of a policy reversal http://leicarumors.com/2016/11/13/leica-m10-what-we-know-so-far-from-the-leaked-pictures.aspx/ You do realize that label is a phony, don't you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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