jaapv Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1641 Posted January 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Don't confuse a riposte with an opinion ;) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Leica M 10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mmx_2 Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1642 Posted January 14, 2017 me like 550g. In comparison M240 is 27lb!! M240weight.jpg Well, I always liked the handling of the old m240 : This one from my time in the military: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1643 Posted January 14, 2017 I am never confused Awesome! Would you mind explaining the math behind statistical learning theory? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1644 Posted January 14, 2017 If you don't find Quantum Physics confusing then you aren't doing it properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1645 Posted January 14, 2017 esthetics has nothing to do with it, more form and functionality, what was wrong with the ISO button on the 240. I would prefer a small readout of ISO in the bottom of Viewfinder then a stupid dial on the body to remind me of what ISO i am set in. I really do not think the M as retro jewellery , its more a very serious photo tool for me.. so a throw back silly dial is not what I was expecting, BUT as always that is Just my opinion. I think you might be a bit confused about this I remember talking to someone at Leica some time ago, and (right or wrong) they felt that, with digital, the ISO becomes a legitimate 3rd aspect of exposure (after aperture and shutter speed), and on that basis it deserves it's place on the outside of a camera . . . and it's important not to get confused between retro jewellery and visible functionality. . . a less confused concern might be how this would play with user presets (which I find extremely useful when using the camera as a serious photo tool). We'll just have to wait and see Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1646 Posted January 14, 2017 I think you might be a bit confused about this I remember talking to someone at Leica some time ago, and (right or wrong) they felt that, with digital, the ISO becomes a legitimate 3rd aspect of exposure (after aperture and shutter speed), and on that basis it deserves it's place on the outside of a camera . . . and it's important not to get confused between retro jewellery and visible functionality. . . a less confused concern might be how this would play with user presets (which I find extremely useful when using the camera as a serious photo tool). We'll just have to wait and see Hi Jono, Although i agree with the folks at Leica re the function of ISO in the digital age, the placement of the dial is definitely a shameless nod to the M3. Solms and now Wetzler has been stumped on how to use that area on the digital M since the M8. IMHO they got it right with the M9/M262. A simple dropped shoulder. Back to the M10 ISO wheel, i think it would have been best to follow tradition by having it on the back of the camera. A miniature version of the MD,M60 wheel, push to unlock, placed under the info wheel would have been a much smarter way to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1647 Posted January 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think you might be a bit confused about this I remember talking to someone at Leica some time ago, and (right or wrong) they felt that, with digital, the ISO becomes a legitimate 3rd aspect of exposure (after aperture and shutter speed), and on that basis it deserves it's place on the outside of a camera . . . and it's important not to get confused between retro jewellery and visible functionality. . . a less confused concern might be how this would play with user presets (which I find extremely useful when using the camera as a serious photo tool). We'll just have to wait and see One advantage of working with the SL, for me, is that I have ISO set as a favorite from my DOF preview button... just because I use ISO as a "3rd aspect of exposure" per Jono's comment. A dedicated, non-menu wheel for ISO on an M would be super, IMHO. Jono, I am confused, however , about an interaction between the dedicated ISO wheel and presets (which I use for two non-coded lenses that I am reluctant to send off to Wetzlar). The M10 has a rear menu button, just the typ 240 family, so wouldn't you expect to be able to access/ adjust profiles as quickly as the "olde" model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1648 Posted January 14, 2017 I think you might be a bit confused about this I remember talking to someone at Leica some time ago, and (right or wrong) they felt that, with digital, the ISO becomes a legitimate 3rd aspect of exposure (after aperture and shutter speed), and on that basis it deserves it's place on the outside of a camera . . . and it's important not to get confused between retro jewellery and visible functionality. . . a less confused concern might be how this would play with user presets (which I find extremely useful when using the camera as a serious photo tool). We'll just have to wait and see Jono, you brought up a good point that I had not seen earlier. I do use the preset to set ISO. For example I have a preset named "tripod" that enables LV and sets ISO to 200. My other presets keep ISO in Auto. Having said that, I won't mind explicit control on ISO by looking at the top of the camera. Provided it doesn't change accidentally while walking when I want it to remain in A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1649 Posted January 14, 2017 I personally find it invaluable to have an external dial for ISO, especially for shooting in M mode, as indeed it is an essential setting in digital. The direct access to ISO knob would allow me to refine my manual exposures without having to go back to the menu. I don't know how the knob is designed but expect that I will be able to change the settings using just the left index, perhaps while keeping the camera at eye level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1650 Posted January 14, 2017 Like I said It was just my opinion, In my workflow I set the ISO at the start of my shoot , press a button , turn a wheel, a quick glance, and I am done. It's a matter of a few seconds at a start of a shoot. I do not see a need for a dedicated external control for this. However I would love to know that info in my viewfinder , along with the F stop and Shutter speed, I would have preferred and exposure compensation wheel instead in that position. You will not see aperture set in the viewfinder of the M10 as there is no interface with the M lenses which would allow this. You do see it with the S, SL and T cameras as there is an electronic interface between those cameras and their dedicated lenses. The M adapter when used on these cameras will not give you aperture set in the viewfinder either. With the M10, you should get shutter speed set or chosen by aperture priority in the viewfinder I would think. Having three dedicated controls for ISO, shutter speed and aperture without resorting to menus or multi-function buttons as it appears on the M10 would be ideal. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principal at work. Or as Leica would put it, concentrating on the essentials. We shall all find out in four days time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1651 Posted January 14, 2017 The ISO dial looks perfect. Perfect place for it too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1652 Posted January 14, 2017 On the M it seems absolutely right to set aperture, shutter speed and ISO manually, as it is essentially a simple manual camera with auto bits where they don't get in the way. I am happy for that to be the exact opposite on the SL. Setting ISO by preset is just one of those little conveniences I am willing to forgo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1653 Posted January 14, 2017 All I can say is that I'm saving my pennies: M10 or SL. Oh man, do I hope the M10 does video. I do need a small camera that shoots high-quality video. And yes, I do need it to be a Leica because I don't want to buy a Sony. If I did buy a Sony, I would have to carry it with me when I travel, and I just don't want to do that. I know they are great cameras, they just don't speak to me. What I'm afraid will happen is that the M10 doesn't shoot video, but I'll love everything else about it. That would be a heartbreaker. It is much easier for me to justify buying the things I love if I can use them for work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYBORA Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1654 Posted January 14, 2017 All I can say is that I'm saving my pennies: M10 or SL. Oh man, do I hope the M10 does video. I do need a small camera that shoots high-quality video. And yes, I do need it to be a Leica because I don't want to buy a Sony. If I did buy a Sony, I would have to carry it with me when I travel, and I just don't want to do that. I know they are great cameras, they just don't speak to me. What I'm afraid will happen is that the M10 doesn't shoot video, but I'll love everything else about it. That would be a heartbreaker. It is much easier for me to justify buying the things I love if I can use them for work. You will most likely end up buying an SL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1655 Posted January 14, 2017 The direct access to ISO knob would allow me to refine my manual exposures without having to go back to the menu. Just interested... how often do you use ISO to refine you exposures ? I have to say I don't change ISO very much and even when I do it's so easy on the M9 (I think it's more of a PITA on the 240 ?). I don't mind the new knob but I don't think it's vital by any means, and if I get a 10 and the photos are not fake, the presence of an ISO knob is not going to change the way I expose in the slightest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1656 Posted January 14, 2017 All I can say is that I'm saving my pennies: M10 or SL. Oh man, do I hope the M10 does video. I do need a small camera that shoots high-quality video. And yes, I do need it to be a Leica because I don't want to buy a Sony. If I did buy a Sony, I would have to carry it with me when I travel, and I just don't want to do that. I know they are great cameras, they just don't speak to me. What I'm afraid will happen is that the M10 doesn't shoot video, but I'll love everything else about it. That would be a heartbreaker. It is much easier for me to justify buying the things I love if I can use them for work. What's your opposition to an M240? I like everything about mine....except video is disabled. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1657 Posted January 14, 2017 Just interested... how often do you use ISO to refine you exposures ? I have to say I don't change ISO very much and even when I do it's so easy on the M9 (I think it's more of a PITA on the 240 ?). I don't mind the new knob but I don't think it's vital by any means, and if I get a 10 and the photos are not fake, the presence of an ISO knob is not going to change the way I expose in the slightest.On the M262 I tend to use auto ISO most often because I find changing ISO is a PITA as you described it However it does happen quite often when I'm not shooting randomly to switch to manual where I would fix the shutter speed and aperture that I need for the specific subject and change ISO to control the exposure. I think having direct access to ISO with a dedicated external dial would make it easier, faster and more convenient. PS. The current way to change ISO requires one push of the ISO button, scrolling to the required ISO, then pushing the ok button. Not too bad but not as good as turning a dial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1658 Posted January 14, 2017 Just interested... how often do you use ISO to refine you exposures ? I have to say I don't change ISO very much and even when I do it's so easy on the M9 (I think it's more of a PITA on the 240 ?). I don't mind the new knob but I don't think it's vital by any means, and if I get a 10 and the photos are not fake, the presence of an ISO knob is not going to change the way I expose in the slightest. I do it quite often - especially early / light as light changes rapidly. I like the idea of the ISO wheel - and it feels like an OK place for it so long as the detents are good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1659 Posted January 14, 2017 Don't get i how you guys are managing to turn a dial with your left hand while turning focus and aperture rings with the same. Do you expect to use your left ear? . We are not in the film days anymore when we turned that sort of dial only once per roll. Not a deal breaker to me but i wonder if i live in the same ergonomics planet when i see this iso dial i must say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1660 Posted January 14, 2017 Don't get i how you guys are managing to turn a dial with your left hand while turning focus and aperture rings with the same. Do you expect to use your left ear? . We are not in the film days anymore when we turned that sort of dial only once per roll. Not a deal breaker to me but i wonder if i live in the same ergonomics planet when i see this iso dial i must say. I think the trick would be not to try to turn the focusing ring and the ISO dial simultaneously Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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