zlatkob Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1661 Posted January 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Don't get i how you guys are managing to turn a dial with your left hand while turning focus and aperture rings with the same. Do you expect to use your left ear? . We are not in the film days anymore when we turned that sort of dial only once per roll. Not a deal breaker to me but i wonder if i live in the same ergonomics planet when i see this iso dial i must say. Not everything has to be done at the same time, right? Photography allows for taking the camera away from the eye, looking down, and adjusting the ISO dial with the left hand. It's not something that has to be done constantly or instantly. It looks like an excellent control, taking the place of the no-longer-needed film rewind dial. I like it better than Fuji's design, which combines the ISO dial with the shutter speed dial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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jonoslack Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1662 Posted January 14, 2017 Don't get i how you guys are managing to turn a dial with your left hand while turning focus and aperture rings with the same. Do you expect to use your left ear? . We are not in the film days anymore when we turned that sort of dial only once per roll. Not a deal breaker to me but i wonder if i live in the same ergonomics planet when i see this iso dial i must say. Same way as changing the shutter speed, altering the exposure compensation and pressing the shutter with my right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1663 Posted January 14, 2017 Someone somewhere above made the rather odd comment that ISO is not a function of exposure. If you're shooting manual, you have to control ISO, otherwise the camera will continue to dictate the exposure by adjusting the ISO. To expose properly, you must either use exposure compensation (which is just another name for adjusting ISO) or fix the ISO you need. It isn't static. I appreciate my technique is currently affected by the SL, but the principle remains the same. You can shoot as Jono indicated above, with aperture being the only setting you control directl. That means the camera sets shutter and ISO according to the meter - you focus, meter and reframe. Many are comfortable with that, but after using the SL I'm not so much. If you want to control both aperture and shutter speed, then you're at the mercy of the camera's ISO adjustments. I don't find that particularly satisfactory. With the M60, there's no Auto-ISO setting, so I get better contol - set the ISO I want, set the aperture, and then adjust the shutter setting as necessary. So, a direct ISO setting is logical and useful - rear dial on the M60, bottom left button assigned on the SL. The ISO dial and exposure compensation was always top left on my film Nikons. I appreciate everyone has a different approach, but ISO setting is definitely a critical factor in exposure for digital - blown highlights and loss of detail in deep shadow can't all be corrected in post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1664 Posted January 14, 2017 I do it quite often - especially early / light as light changes rapidly. I like the idea of the ISO wheel - and it feels like an OK place for it so long as the detents are good. I do it quite often as well, and I think I might do it more with a dial. Especially in low light situations like a concert where you might decide on a minimum shutter speed and aperture . . . and use the ISO dial to keep the exposure correct - at any rate, it makes it possible to use all three exposure variables independently to control your exposure (which isn't really possible with the ISO set in a menu). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1665 Posted January 14, 2017 What's your opposition to an M240? I like everything about mine....except video is disabled. Jeff Video is terrible on the M240 and I have stated my preference for the M9 and MM1 over the M240 on many occasions. Any advantages the M240 has over the M9 are implemented more maturely in the SL. I would rather have a two-camera setup and use each camera for the purpose it is suited for better than the M240. I am hoping that the M10 improves on the M240 to a point where there is a noticeable difference to my M9. As an example, I was excited about an EVF option for portraiture when the M240 was announced, but the refresh rate makes the EVF so sluggish that it is useless to me for that purpose. The SL viewfinder on the other hand is a delight. My method of taking portraits is to engage a person, and when their expression is interesting, I will take the photograph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1666 Posted January 14, 2017 Same way as changing the shutter speed, altering the exposure compensation and pressing the shutter with my right You said it. With your right hand. Impossible with your left hand while operating the lens at the same time. Reason why we will never see a shutter release on the left side of the top plate... hopefully... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1667 Posted January 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Video is terrible on the M240 and I have stated my preference for the M9 and MM1 over the M240 on many occasions. Any advantages the M240 has over the M9 are implemented more maturely in the SL. I would rather have a two-camera setup and use each camera for the purpose it is suited for better than the M240. I am hoping that the M10 improves on the M240 to a point where there is a noticeable difference to my M9. As an example, I was excited about an EVF option for portraiture when the M240 was announced, but the refresh rate makes the EVF so sluggish that it is useless to me for that purpose. The SL viewfinder on the other hand is a delight. My method of taking portraits is to engage a person, and when their expression is interesting, I will take the photograph. Yep, we're all different, which is why any new Leica camera will please some, discourage others and be ignored by most. I use the M240 strictly as an RF camera, just as I did with film Ms and the M8.2, skipping the M8 and M9 (both of which I tested). It's the best digital RF M that I've used. Whatever works. The more choices Leica gives us, the better. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1668 Posted January 14, 2017 If I had skipped the M8 and M9, I would have bought an M240 as well, but as it was, I had half-cases and batteries that carried on, and I got used to a certain look and processing, which is why the improvements didn't entice me to upgrade, and this may happen again with the M10. We will see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1669 Posted January 14, 2017 You said it. With your right hand. Impossible with your left hand while operating the lens at the same time. Reason why we will never see a shutter release on the left side of the top plate... hopefully... I don't see why someone should not be able to move the focusing tab with the left index and turn the ISO dial with the left thumb. Though admittedly I can't think of any situation that requires me to do both simultaneously Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1670 Posted January 14, 2017 You said it. With your right hand. Impossible with your left hand while operating the lens at the same time. Reason why we will never see a shutter release on the left side of the top plate... hopefully... I would not be changing the ISO when the camera is at my eye. That's the time to observe the subject and focus on taking the photograph. But I love the ISO dial for a whole different reason. I have always loved having an aperture dial on the lens, because as I carry my camera around my neck, I can glance down and know exactly where my aperture is set, and I frequently adjust it according to the light I have available and the depth of field I want for my next photos. I am very excited to have that same kind of quick overview with the ISO parameter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1671 Posted January 14, 2017 You will most likely end up buying an SL. Yo may have missed the word small... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1672 Posted January 14, 2017 If you want to control both aperture and shutter speed, then you're at the mercy of the camera's ISO adjustments. I don't find that particularly satisfactory. With the M60, there's no Auto-ISO setting, so I get better contol - set the ISO I want, set the aperture, and then adjust the shutter setting as necessary. I would have thought that is how must people using a mainly "manual" camera work. You seem under the impression that the opposite is true, that most people use auto-iso. My ISO setting is always fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYBORA Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1673 Posted January 14, 2017 Yo may have missed the word small... SL is one of his considerations and he wants to record video. If the M11 has not video recording capability and video is more important than the size for him then why not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1674 Posted January 14, 2017 I would have thought that is how must people using a mainly "manual" camera work. You seem under the impression that the opposite is true, that most people use auto-iso. My ISO setting is always fixed. No "impression". I was responding to earlier comments about ISO and concluding that the direct ISO dial was a good idea and necessary part of manual photography with digital cameras. If I understand you correctly, you agree? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1675 Posted January 14, 2017 SL is one of his considerations and he wants to record video. If the M11 has not video recording capability and video is more important than the size for him then why not. Just use an M240 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1676 Posted January 14, 2017 Just use an M240 He addressed that in my exchange. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYBORA Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1677 Posted January 14, 2017 Just use an M240 Video is terrible on the M240 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imants Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1678 Posted January 14, 2017 ISO >< exposure compensation > < shutter speed I would like to see all on the top plate ps I change ISO constantly especially shooting textiles , those little village workshops in Asia are dim and have a lot of stray light Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1679 Posted January 14, 2017 Until very recently, I would always set my ISO manually on the M9 and MM. Pretty easy to do, but it still requires several button pushes. In the M240, it is more involved. Lately I have been using the auto ISO which works a treat. Having a dedicated manual ISO Setting dial seems an improvement to me and something I would use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 14, 2017 Share #1680 Posted January 14, 2017 I would not be changing the ISO when the camera is at my eye. That's the time to observe the subject and focus on taking the photograph. But I love the ISO dial for a whole different reason. I have always loved having an aperture dial on the lens, because as I carry my camera around my neck, I can glance down and know exactly where my aperture is set, and I frequently adjust it according to the light I have available and the depth of field I want for my next photos. I am very excited to have that same kind of quick overview with the ISO parameter. Well... personally me too do not dislike the idea of a quick ISO setting knob which doesn't require menu setting... and (from the leaked pics) like also the aesthetics of a "not whole flat top" à la M3... but frankly not sufficient to decide me to buy... if the prospected vario Elmar 28/75 comes true... there will be a much more appreciable item to put money into... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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