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Leica M 10


rijve044

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I'm in the market for an interchangeable lens camera within the next month or so (definitely for the Spring). I was using my X100t at the weekend and was very impressed with the EVF (not the quality, but being able to see what the camera will capture). Shooting RAW + b&w JPEG I was able to see the subject in b&w, the effect of any change of the compensation dial settings to the photograph before its taking, and even to zoom into the photograph to check focus at the press of a dial (I didn't know that I could do that till I pressed the dial by accident!).

 

When I bought the camera I expected to use the OVF almost exclusively but this has turned out not to be the case. With regard to the M10 I'm beginning to hope that the camera has a (state of the art) EVF with an M mount. This will allow older M lenses to be used on the camera as well as newer lenses that are not hindered by a rangefinder system. This thread has made me realise that I have been putting up (for years) with the small M viewfinder that only allows me to see 35mm and 50mm framelines, when wearing spectacles, in order to get a small camera body with excellent lenses. I've had a Visoflex on a T camera, and I will never use an add-on viewfinder again. Even if the new digital M manages to finally get the form factor of the film M, it may be too little too late for me. 

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There is an essential difference between two groups of users: Those who want to see the world through the viewfinder and those who want to see the image in the viewfinder.

Basically that is the division between Leica M (and other rangefinder cameras) users and TTL viewfinder users. If you are in the latter group an EVF camera will obviously be the better choice for you. However, that is not the target customer group  for a Leica M.

 

It is not  just a matter of viewing quality, the most important difference  is the fact that an optical viewfinder has all components in focus demanding visualisation of the image by the photographer, whereas an EVF (Or SLR) will already be in the stage that the lens has been separating the focus plane, presenting the image as it will be taken.

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Very well put. However, it seems as there a lot of people who wants the Leica M not because of its characteristics and capabilities, but because it is "the" Leica....

 

There is an essential difference between two groups of users: Those who want to see the world through the viewfinder and those who want to see the image in the viewfinder.

Basically that is the division between Leica M (and other rangefinder cameras) users and TTL viewfinder users. If you are in the latter group an EVF camera will obviously be the better choice for you. However, that is not the target customer group  for a Leica M.

 

It is not  just a matter of viewing quality, the most important difference  is the fact that an optical viewfinder has all components in focus demanding visualisation of the image by the photographer, whereas an EVF (Or SLR) will already be in the stage that the lens has been separating the focus plane, presenting the image as it will be taken.

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Or there are a lot of people loving M lenses in the first place. Some of them prefer rangefinders but others would be perfectly happy with an EVIL designed for M lenses. As long as they don't call it an M i don't mind at all but would Leica be interested in such an EVIL w/o choosing an L mount for it, this is the question.

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Very well put. However, it seems as there a lot of people who wants the Leica M not because of its characteristics and capabilities, but because it is "the" Leica....

I don't agree. A lot of people just wants the size and quality of M-lenses regardless of OVF/EVF. No need to go for "the Leica" cliché.

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Or there are a lot of people loving M lenses in the first place. Some of them prefer rangefinders but others would be perfectly happy with an EVIL designed for M lenses. As long as they don't call it an M i don't mind at all but would Leica be interested in such an EVIL w/o choosing an L mount for it, this is the question.

 

 

Why, out of interest, would it trouble you if it were called an M? Is it out of a sense of historical propriety?

 

My feeling is that, as with virtually all words, "M" has changed its meaning over time and now denotes the whole system. If anything it is not so much the viewfinder as the lenses that distinguish the M system from others, but that's just a matter of personal opinion. But really, is the name that important that it should influence the nature of the camera?

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In that scenario  the road that Leica has chosen by optimizing the SL as well as possible for M lenses appears to be a wise  one - now the only thing to do is to shrink the SL and make it a bit of an M lookalike.

Or, maybe, even better, an R4 lookalike.;)

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In that scenario the road that Leica has chosen by optimizing the SL as well as possible for M lenses appears to be a wise one - now the only thing to do is to shrink the SL and make it a bit of an M lookalike.

Or, maybe, even better, an R4 lookalike.;)

QM :)
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To me, the real juwels are the M lenses.

 

And to me, the OVF of the M is a joyful experience.

My most used lenses on the M are the 28 Lux and the 50 Lux (where the OVF of the M shines). I thought that might be different with the SL, but it is not really.

 

I do hope for four things for the coming Ms:

- most importantly: Do not dismiss the rangefinder OVF

- a better EVF (no time lags, blackouts) in the next M for the occasional use of very wide and longer M lenses

- a better sensor (dynamic range and high ISO)

- option for electronic shutter (I do not like to use nd filters when shooting fast lenses wide open in bright daylight)

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QM :)

Which would, obviously, eat into M sales by attracting the M users Typ II. As long as the RF-M remains avalaible for the M usersTyp I, I see no objection.  Leica would be happy - they would sell more cameras overall.

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Why, out of interest, would it trouble you if it were called an M? Is it out of a sense of historical propriety?

 

My feeling is that, as with virtually all words, "M" has changed its meaning over time and now denotes the whole system. If anything it is not so much the viewfinder as the lenses that distinguish the M system from others, but that's just a matter of personal opinion. But really, is the name that important that it should influence the nature of the camera?

 

It would trouble me if the rangefinder would die and a good way to kill it is to give its name to sans rangefinder cameras. Why on earth should Leica be giving the same name to rangefinders and sans rangefinder cameras? Let alone if the latters have not an M mount. Why not calling a compact mirrorless camera CSL or QL or anything else than M? There are 19 (?) letters other than M in the alphabet aren't they. I sense a desire of killing the father in this recurrent question B).

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It would trouble me if the rangefinder would die and a good way to kill it is to give its name to sans rangefinder cameras. Why on earth should Leica be giving the same name to rangefinders and sans rangefinder cameras? Let alone if the latters have not an M mount. Why not calling a compact mirrorless camera CSL or QL or anything else than M? There are 19 (?) letters other than M in the alphabet aren't they. I sense a desire of killing the father in this recurrent question B).

 

 

I was thinking it would still have an M mount.

 

Rather like a car can have have diesel, petrol or other engines but is identified by the body, I thought it might actually help the M to have variants that enable people to choose the features that they personally consider most essential to them.

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It would trouble me if the rangefinder would die and a good way to kill it is to give its name to sans rangefinder cameras.

Agreed... Only a week to go!  Much as I find the idea of a QL interesting, I have the strong feeling that my next M will be an M, that it will have a rangefinder based focusing system and that any electronic VF will be an add on.  I'm happy with this.  I get the style of framing and shooting that I love for core FLs from 28-75 and I have the option of some extra help with long lenses and accurate framing with 21 and wider.  As the vast majority of my work with the M is shared between 28/35/50 what's not to like?  And, as I'm sure is the case for many of us here, if we feel a need for a different tool for different purposes (medium format / AF / zooms etc) we just use another system!

I want the M to remain an M, not because I'm a fan boy or for reasons of nostalgia, but because I take better pictures with manually focused prime lenses and with a camera that I can carry anywhere without being inhibited by weight or bulk.

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Agreed... Only a week to go!  Much as I find the idea of a QL interesting, I have the strong feeling that my next M will be an M, that it will have a rangefinder based focusing system and that any electronic VF will be an add on.  I'm happy with this.  I get the style of framing and shooting that I love for core FLs from 28-75 and I have the option of some extra help with long lenses and accurate framing with 21 and wider.  As the vast majority of my work with the M is shared between 28/35/50 what's not to like?  And, as I'm sure is the case for many of us here, if we feel a need for a different tool for different purposes (medium format / AF / zooms etc) we just use another system!

I want the M to remain an M, not because I'm a fan boy or for reasons of nostalgia, but because I take better pictures with manually focused prime lenses and with a camera that I can carry anywhere without being inhibited by weight or bulk.

 

 

Yes, this is what I want too, for the same reasons.

 

But I'd be quite happy for there to be an EVF version of the same M for those who'd like it.

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