lct Posted September 11, 2016 Share #41 Posted September 11, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) What exactly is this 'digital rangefinder' idea [...] Someting like this perhaps. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! http://www.google.com/patents/DE102012009975B4?cl=en Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! http://www.google.com/patents/DE102012009975B4?cl=en ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/264366-on-the-meaning-and-implications-of-no-new-m-at-photokina/?do=findComment&comment=3110435'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 11, 2016 Posted September 11, 2016 Hi lct, Take a look here On The Meaning And Implications Of No New M At Photokina. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
james.liam Posted September 11, 2016 Share #42 Posted September 11, 2016 A few thoughts worth considering: -The appeal of minimalist Typ 262/MD and release of new ciné M 0.8 lenses suggests, to me at least, that they may be approaching the M successor in a fashion akin to Sony and the a7; with at least 2 models to start with. -Yes, the new ciné lenses are initially intended for the Red and others, but better to equip a new video-centric M with industry-leading capabilities alongside still-centric M bodies in the M262 context. Just an educated guess but the % of M users shooting video can't be greater than 10%, whilst those doing so seriously probably less that 2%. -The SL suggests that they've moved forward to include cutting-edge tech instead of outdated stuff at intro. With a small maker as Leica, this takes time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted September 11, 2016 Share #43 Posted September 11, 2016 The perceived "delay" in announcing a new M may also be due to the relatively limited resources available: designing the Q and the SL must have been a formidable effort for what remains after all a small-size company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted September 11, 2016 Share #44 Posted September 11, 2016 Precisely my point. They've got a lot on their plate but the move back to Wetzlar and the great expansion allows them to do so. Still, some soul-searching about the direction of the M had to have consumed much time. The M240 was really their first fully-baked digital yet the sensor, as good as it is, was not state of the art at introduction, while, the EVF an afterthought. The perceived "delay" in announcing a new M may also be due to the relatively limited resources available: designing the Q and the SL must have been a formidable effort for what remains after all a small-size company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted September 11, 2016 Share #45 Posted September 11, 2016 Someting like this perhaps. The problem lies here: visually observable indication unit for displaying data and / or images. To work as a rangefinder the 'visually observable indiction' has to operate in a visually appealing way - and on an M camera this means like the existing rangefinder. But there are perfectly good systems for confirming focus already (such as on the SL) so its not the technology that is the point on an M, its the interface ...... . I still see no logical reason for replacing a satisfactory mechanical rangefinder focus system with an electronic rangefinder system unless it offers a significantly better user interface than the existing mechanical one. And given the existence of the SL I see no advantage for a digital rangefinder using M lenses over the SL - they still have a complete lack of lens/camera data transfer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 11, 2016 Share #46 Posted September 11, 2016 Trade fairs are a great time for companies to announce new products of course. They can exploit the opportunity for lots of publicity they wouldn't otherwise get without additional expense, and they may 'get one over' their competitors. Do we think that Leica are desperate to get a new M to market for these reasons? If not then should it be seen as a sign of anything if there's no new M in a couple of weeks? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted September 11, 2016 Share #47 Posted September 11, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Precisely my point. They've got a lot on their plate but the move back to Wetzlar and the great expansion allows them to do so. Still, some soul-searching about the direction of the M had to have consumed much time. The M240 was really their first fully-baked digital yet the sensor, as good as it is, was not state of the art at introduction, while, the EVF an afterthought. Yes, but it's easier to expand the facilities (although such a move is always somewhat disruptive) than to populate them overnight with skilled/specialised designers, engineers, workers, etc. I guess that ramping up the workforce in both quantitative and qualitative terms must have been - and perhaps still is in some areas - their biggest challenge. My guess, FWIW, is that they chose to prioritise resource allocation to the Q and the SL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted September 11, 2016 Share #48 Posted September 11, 2016 Trade fairs are a great time for companies to announce new products of course. They can exploit the opportunity for lots of publicity they wouldn't otherwise get without additional expense, and they may 'get one over' their competitors. Do we think that Leica are desperate to get a new M to market for these reasons? If not then should it be seen as a sign of anything if there's no new M in a couple of weeks? Perhaps the sales numbers from the other product lines are sufficiently good that the announcement of a new M doesn't need to be rushed? Or the new M will be so 'new' that it will get its own launch event? Either way, there should at least be some hints in a couple of week's time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giulio Zanni Posted September 11, 2016 Share #49 Posted September 11, 2016 As much as I would love to see a new M, I am fine with what I have. To me it means money going to my projects instead of new gear :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 11, 2016 Share #50 Posted September 11, 2016 Either way, there should at least be some hints in a couple of week's time. Not sure about that; it seems like nobody outside Leica has the slightest idea of what they are up to. Which is just as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou Posted September 11, 2016 Share #51 Posted September 11, 2016 A few thoughts worth considering: -The appeal of minimalist Typ 262/MD and release of new ciné M 0.8 lenses suggests, to me at least, that they may be approaching the M successor in a fashion akin to Sony and the a7; with at least 2 models to start with. -Yes, the new ciné lenses are initially intended for the Red and others, but better to equip a new video-centric M with industry-leading capabilities alongside still-centric M bodies in the M262 context. Just an educated guess but the % of M users shooting video can't be greater than 10%, whilst those doing so seriously probably less that 2%. -The SL suggests that they've moved forward to include cutting-edge tech instead of outdated stuff at intro. With a small maker as Leica, this takes time. I would not bother if the M had no video capacity at all, its not in in the M ADN and the SL will be better at it. My " dream " would be a new M with better sensor (and some more pixels too) quicker electronics and a state of the art removable EVF. Keep all remaining as is or better quality but no fundamental change. This is in the reach of the ingeneers and technicians of Leica, i do not ask anything particularly difficult to build. While there are at it they could add one more thing (who said that already ?) an adapter trigering the diaphragm of Leica R lenses (here i am dreaming) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 11, 2016 Share #52 Posted September 11, 2016 a new video-centric M with industry-leading capabilities A video-centric M – does that make any sense? To me it doesn’t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted September 11, 2016 Share #53 Posted September 11, 2016 A video-centric M – does that make any sense? To me it doesn’t. Doesn't to me either but they just announced the ciné M 0.8 lens line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 11, 2016 Share #54 Posted September 11, 2016 [...] I still see no logical reason for replacing a satisfactory mechanical rangefinder focus system with an electronic rangefinder system unless it offers a significantly better user interface than the existing mechanical one. [...] Not that i'm interested myself but a digital rangefinder could solve the endemic problem of RF miscalibration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted September 11, 2016 Share #55 Posted September 11, 2016 Hello Everybody, Another reason for a digital range/viewfinder that APPEARS to function like a current "M" optical/mechanical range/viewfinder is: Cost. A substantial portion of the total cost for the production of any of the "M" cameras (Film or Digital.) is the cost of the range/viewfinder systems. A proper, equivalent, digital range/viewfinder system might be less expensive. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Bedford Posted September 12, 2016 Share #56 Posted September 12, 2016 I'll continue to preach the "don't remove the optical rangefinder on the M" angle. I love photographing without looking at any digital displays, rangefinder, detachable viewfinder, back display or whatever. But then I should get an M-D in that case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted September 12, 2016 Share #57 Posted September 12, 2016 A video-centric M – does that make any sense? To me it doesn’t. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either but how else do you explain the M-mount ciné lenses? Are they making them just for the Red cameras? I somehow doubt it. To go to the engineering effort of new housing and gearing, they must have some internal requirement for an upcoming device. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted September 12, 2016 Share #58 Posted September 12, 2016 I've always thought the M mount has value of its own, by making legacy M lenses available for a new camera ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sml_photo Posted September 12, 2016 Share #59 Posted September 12, 2016 As much as I would love to see a new M, I am fine with what I have. To me it means money going to my projects instead of new gear :-) Bravo! I hope Leica resists getting caught up in the "model upgrade race" as the other manufacturers. There should be no urgency due to the calendar...rather update when it is absolutely necessary or appropriate. I have confidence in their decision making and I'm satisfied with the gear and the various available options they've devised recently. Enough choices for everyone and a solid brand name! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted September 12, 2016 Share #60 Posted September 12, 2016 To me the implication of no new M at Photokina is that I will have to hang onto my M240s a while longer. But I was planning to do that anyway, as they do exactly what I need them to, so I will concentrate on more serious matters, and if and when Leica gets around to announcing a new model, I'll let some early-adopters break mine in for me and then buy it at 30-40% less, just as I did with the M240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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