advantages, Digilux 3 vs L1?

[S. Wong]

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What advantages do you get for the Digilux 3 vs the Panasonic L1?

 

I'm on a budget, and I can get the kit L1 for $1000, vs the Digilux 3 for $2500

plus, I like the all-black look of the L1.

 

Thank you

-Steven

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[audidudi]

What advantages do you get for the Digilux 3 vs the Panasonic L1?

 

I'm on a budget, and I can get the kit L1 for $1000, vs the Digilux 3 for $2500

plus, I like the all-black look of the L1.

 

I'm sorry to say this, but the few differences that do exist between the L1 and D3 are probably not worth a 150% premium if you're on a tight budget and prefer the L1's all-black finish.

 

(As an aside, the $1000 price you quote seems a bit on the low side and if I were you, before you give that seller any of your money, I'd check them out first ... worst case, there are plenty of reputable sellers with $1200-ish prices for L1s and this still represents quite a savings from the L1's suggested list price.)

[d_lague]

I have an L1 and love it. And I love the black color better than the silver. It does say Leica on the lens if not the body. Audi is right $1200 from B&H and J&R and other good mail order houses. Watch out for some of the less reputable houses. Unless you have bought from the buyer, I would go the safe route and get it from a good company.

 

The L1 is a pretty awesome camera for the money.

[Iron Flatline]

You get a bigger memory chip, better software, slightly different firmware, a lot better warranty, and a red dot, but even as a rabid Leica fan I find it hard to justify the price difference.

 

And if you prefer the all-black look, you're pretty much done in terms of your decision.

 

Note how some people "blacked out" their L-1s in this thread.

[Overgaard]

The second-hand price will be higher on the Leica - any time - but that won't justify the 150% price difference in this case.

 

Normally I wouldn't hesitate to buy Leica when the price difference is 20% or whatever it use to be with Panasonic/Leica when both products are newly released.

[dugby]

The L1 has the following extra features (Firmware V2.0) that the D3 currently does not have:

 

<http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/download/L1K/>

 

1. Added a multiple exposure function.

 

2. Added "panning mode"(MODE3) to the optical image stabilizer.

 

3. Added a "low-angle" viewing mode that makes it easier to view the LCD display when the camera is held below eye level.

 

4. Added feature that simplifies setting the aperture when using a lens without an aperture ring.

 

5. Added two manual white balance settings to GUI. GUI design uses navigational cursor to easily select, and set, white balance (WB) to change the color temperature, or set the ISO sensitivity or flash.

Time restriction for making changes was removed.

 

6. Added "HOLD" option to Auto Review time, enabling continuous viewing.

 

7. Added feature to allow zoomed playback of photos. It's now possible to move back to the preceding images or forward to the next images while the image is still zoomed.

 

8. Added [AUTO] for the ISO sensitivity in the aperture-priority AE mode [A] and shutter speed-priority AE mode .

 

9. Added GUI option to easily check the firmware version.

 

10. Improved the performance of AE(Auto Exposure) and AWB(Auto White Balance).

[rivi1969]

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I am in the exact same situation than you are deciding which one to choose.

 

I work in advertising and I am also a victim of brand loyalty, but in this case the red dot costs twice as much and I rather put that money on glass etc. I have seen used D3's being sold on ebay for 1750-1900 dlls, mint L1's in 900... so even if you pick a new L1 for 1200 vs a used D3 you are still talking 700 dlls difference.

 

(Besides, the L1 is right now a more capable camera because of the firmware)

 

Personally I prefer black cameras, I would pick a D3 any minute if Leica would offer a black paint version of it but that is not the case, so I think I will go for the L1, I just bought a 35mm Summicron that I am sure will look neat on it!

 

 

Ricardo.

[spylaw4]

My 2p on this:

I thought long and hard before getting the L1 as opposed to the D3. In the end even the extended warranty did not justify the price difference, and now I am pleased that the updated firmware has made the L1 for now an arguably better camera [ducks below the parapet at this point].

 

Do however check out the warranty situation with apparently low priced L1s. Frequently it is restricted and not Panasonic's. This applies especially to those advertised on eBay.

 

My blacked-out L1 (insulating tape) is as I said in the interests of greater unobtrusiveness! Difficult enough with such a big lens sticking out!

[ron110n]

Steve,

 

There is a difference in image signature.

But it's a matter of taste.

D3 is more on the satin image and L1 is more on the clean image.

 

Go to Flickr.com and go to search (Everyone's Photos) then type Digilux 3.

Look at the D3 photos.

Now type Panasonic L1 and compare.

 

I noticed a lot of my D2 colleagues switched or upgraded to Panaleica L1 including myself.

I don't think it's a matter of taste.

I think it's a matter of price.

 

For the price you're getting at 1 grand.

It may be a grey market.

The only worst to expect is, the L1 is somewhere in Hong Kong or Singapore

and the overseas dealer won't ship until you order and till the money is on their hands.

Call them and verify if they have it "on hand" and request a tracking number.

If they do... congrats on your $100 L1 body and your $900 Elmarit-D.

The price does matters...

 

-Ron

[cnguyen]

If you shoot RAW then it shouldn't matter which body you use. I bought the L1 because of the price - $1150. The lens has no flare whatsoever shooting against the sun. Sharpness is on the par with the Olympus 14-54mm digital lens. L1 body is better built than the Olympus ones except E1.I use my L1 as DSLR alternative along with my M8. Waiting for R10 !

[audidudi]

Switching subjects a bit, I wonder what effect Panasonic's deep discounting of the L1 is having / will have on future Panasonic / Leica joint ventures?

 

Historically, Leica's versions of their co-developed / co-branded cameras have listed for 20-25% more than Panasonic's versions and many people have been willing to pay that much more in return for the extras Leica offered.

 

But now that the difference in street prices between the L1 and D3 is 100% or more -- to the point where even the hardcore Leica faithful are having difficulty recommending a D3 over an L1 -- I have to think Leica is losing many of its customers to Panasonic and can't be very happy about this state of affairs. Panasonic, on the other hand, has likely moved to deep discounts on the L1 because it wasn't selling enough of these cameras (including those branded as Leicas) at the higher price points and is trying to stimulate sales.

 

If any or all of the above is true, what does this mean for their future relationship and/or Leica's commitment to the 4/3 system?

[spylaw4]

IIRC the initial selling prices in the UK were L1- £1500: D3 - £1800 which is the 20% difference.

 

I guess that the production run of the L1 was far greater than the D3 but in the UK the L1 was not as far as I know advertised with any degree of assertiveness. I would therefore surmise that Panasonic must be wanting to shift the bulk of their stock before newer models make their appearance.

 

Leica have never (?) been known to discount, but the recent D2-in-for-repair 1/2 price swap offer does seem to me to be indicative that there may be a bit of a surplus stock.

 

Maybe they will both learn from this that the 4/3 system needs to be pushed more against the Canikons to show that there are bodies other than Olympus. I do however think that Leica will stick with it, at least for now.

[MJLogan]

When I bought my D3, the price difference was only US$500, which made it an easy decision in favor of the Leica. At US$1,300 - 1,500, I'd have gone with the L1. I do think that the finish details (subtle things like typography, and more obvious ones like the shape of the top plate) are a lot nicer on the D3, and I prefer Leica's JPEG output. The improvements included in the recent L1 firmware update will no doubt be coming very soon to the D3 as well. Still, $1,500 is enough to buy the new 25mm f/1.4 lens (a masterpiece) and still have enought left over to buy a D-LUX 3...

[jdlaing]

I echo MJLogan.

I did the same.

I have the same beliefs.

 

Does that make me a MJLogan clone?

[chkphoto]

To Brian - what was the "in for Repair / Half price swap offer? My D2 went in for sensor repair but I never heard of the 1/2 price swap offer.

 

thanks in advance

[dugby]

To Brian - what was the "in for Repair / Half price swap offer? My D2 went in for sensor repair but I never heard of the 1/2 price swap offer.

 

thanks in advance

 

If you search in this forum about late May. There was an thread that discussed this.

I believe it was just some "creative salesmenship" by a Leica dealer attempting to move a high priced D3 with a pseudo-trade-in offer.

[ron110n]

Switching subjects a bit, I wonder what effect Panasonic's deep discounting of the L1 is having / will have on future Panasonic / Leica joint ventures?

 

Historically, Leica's versions of their co-developed / co-branded cameras have listed for 20-25% more than Panasonic's versions and many people have been willing to pay that much more in return for the extras Leica offered.

 

But now that the difference in street prices between the L1 and D3 is 100% or more -- to the point where even the hardcore Leica faithful are having difficulty recommending a D3 over an L1 -- I have to think Leica is losing many of its customers to Panasonic and can't be very happy about this state of affairs. Panasonic, on the other hand, has likely moved to deep discounts on the L1 because it wasn't selling enough of these cameras (including those branded as Leicas) at the higher price points and is trying to stimulate sales.

 

If any or all of the above is true, what does this mean for their future relationship and/or Leica's commitment to the 4/3 system?

 

Jeff, this might be better on it's own thread; but since it's so interesting, let's do it.

 

It's all about marketing. First, let's not forget that Matsushita the mother company of Panasonic is the biggest Japanese company in the world. Multibillion Japanese companies will sell "at a loss" for a number of years to get the buying public's attention or just mere intimidate a competition. When I used to work for Toshiba, the third largest Japanese company in the world, they did the same "for three years" selling at a loss. No sweat for the giants, they manufacture anything from microchips, to super tankers, to nuclear reactors. These will always absorb the loss of the 4/3 project.

 

Now going back to the Four Thrids objective. Isn't it that they want to become "a standard".

35mm film normal lens is 50mm, MF normal is 80mm, and Four Thirds normal is 25mm.

I don't see any reason why not for Matsushita's deep pocket. Canon and Nikon is not even in the Top 20. Panasonic and Olympus want's to have the first step.

 

What about Leica. Leica is on a win-win situation in 4/3 technology. Let's not worry about the D3 market. I'm sorry to say this. The D3 is a Panasonic and just another marketing front for Matsushita. "The Leica version of the DMC-L1K". You own a D3, then you drive a Lexus. You own an L1 then "you drive a Toyota". It also works for D3 an Audi A6 and L1 a Jetta. =)

 

Each L1 that sells, Leica being a Lumix OEM has to support Panasonic by selling them the glass. Leica wins! Now each Olympus that sells??? Let's not forget that the e410 and the upcoming e510 has a Matsushita engine (sensor) in it. An Olympus owner will most likely buy an Elmarit=D, Summilux-D, or an Elmar-D (coming soon). Leica wins again. Nikon and Canon will notice the increasing public switching to 4/3; they will get greedy and would want a piece of the pie and join 4/3... "Leica wins again".

 

Bottom line is flooding the market, to increase market share on future projects.

Leica's roll with the giants? Piggy back, but this will absolutely save them.

 

"They are all Leica's potential costumers".

Forget Leica's digital technology.

Everyone knows that it's ziltch, nada, niet.

They're all borrowed technology.

 

-Ron

[spylaw4]

To Brian - what was the "in for Repair / Half price swap offer? My D2 went in for sensor repair but I never heard of the 1/2 price swap offer.

 

thanks in advance

 

It was mentioned in a thread a few days back. Someone who sent their D2 in was contacted by Leica with the offer of a D3 at around 1/2 price. Offer turned down.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Iron Flatline]

Ron is right.

 

The 4/3rd standard will do well, and if I read Sean Reid's Review correctly, there's nothing saying that the (poorly-named) mount requires a 2x crop factor forever - it's just the sensors being used right now.

 

Also, if you're going to talk about threats to the Canon and Nikon, do not underestimate Sony. They WILL make a serious effort, and if you look at their video camera business, or their sound production equipment business, you realize that they know how to cater to a pro market. They have the money for marketing AND R&D!

[dugby]

Jeff, this might be better on it's own thread; but since it's so interesting, let's do it.

 

It's all about marketing. First, let's not forget that Matsushita the mother company of Panasonic is the biggest Japanese company in the world. Multibillion Japanese companies will sell "at a loss" for a number of years to get the buying public's attention or just mere intimidate a competition. When I used to work for Toshiba, the third largest Japanese company in the world, they did the same "for three years" selling at a loss. No sweat for the giants, they manufacture anything from microchips, to super tankers, to nuclear reactors. These will always absorb the loss of the 4/3 project.

 

Now going back to the Four Thrids objective. Isn't it that they want to become "a standard".

35mm film normal lens is 50mm, MF normal is 80mm, and Four Thirds normal is 25mm.

I don't see any reason why not for Matsushita's deep pocket. Canon and Nikon is not even in the Top 20. Panasonic and Olympus want's to have the first step.

 

What about Leica. Leica is on a win-win situation in 4/3 technology. Let's not worry about the D3 market. I'm sorry to say this. The D3 is a Panasonic and just another marketing front for Matsushita. "The Leica version of the DMC-L1K". You own a D3, then you drive a Lexus. You own an L1 then "you drive a Toyota". It also works for D3 an Audi A6 and L1 a Jetta. =)

 

Each L1 that sells, Leica being a Lumix OEM has to support Panasonic by selling them the glass. Leica wins! Now each Olympus that sells??? Let's not forget that the e410 and the upcoming e510 has a Matsushita engine (sensor) in it. An Olympus owner will most likely buy an Elmarit=D, Summilux-D, or an Elmar-D (coming soon). Leica wins again. Nikon and Canon will notice the increasing public switching to 4/3; they will get greedy and would want a piece of the pie and join 4/3... "Leica wins again".

 

Bottom line is flooding the market, to increase market share on future projects.

Leica's roll with the giants? Piggy back, but this will absolutely save them.

 

"They are all Leica's potential costumers".

Forget Leica's digital technology.

Everyone knows that it's ziltch, nada, niet.

They're all borrowed technology.

 

-Ron

 

Hey Ron....100% agree with you.

 

and...

 

Leica should have also got Panasonic to build the M8 <<< Flame me now !!!>>