2 x 90mm or a single 180mm --- Lens advice

[pridbor]

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I have seen an adapter which says "2x" giving e.g. a 90mm lens the equivalent of a 180mm lens.

 

So my question is: is such a device worth going for? or should one always be looking to buy the "real thing". It obviously can be used with the 50mm to provide a 100mm etc etc 

 

Buying all the individual lenses is of course something on the expensive side, whilst this cheaper device could make for a lot of different focal lengths with fewer lenses.

 

I have a potentially rather good price on one such in the next 24 hours, hence my request for advice.

 

Thanks in advance for your insight

 

Preben

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[masjah]

Two points to consider. Firstly, the 2X extenders come in two flavours: the earlier (cheaper) non-Apo extender, and the later 2X Apo extender. The latter is generally accepted to be significantly superior, and results in little (if any) degradation of image quality in practice. Personally I would steer away from a non-Apo extender.

 

Secondly, putting a 2X extender on a lens doubles the focal length, but also reduces the aperture by two stops compared with the scale setting on the original lens. This can be a significant consideration, particularly since higher shutter speeds are needed at longer focal lengths.

 

You pays your money (or not as the case may be!) and takes your choice.

[jankap]

The APO 2x extender is excellent, I have one. 

 

With a Summicron R 90mm f/2 and the extender you become a lens with the data 180mm f/4.

In weight and dimensions comparable with the 180mm f/3.4.

 

You can find technical data in Leica Wiki (english), also about the extender.

Jan

[jaapv]

You might be interested in this article:

 

http://www.apotelyt.com/photo-accessory/leica-apo-extender

 

Specifically the 90 2.0 needs some stopping down with the apo-extender. Given the price of the extender - about 500 Euro- I would go for an Apo-Telyt 180 3.4, which can be found around 1000 Euro.

[pridbor]

Thanks all!! I 'm not sure if it's an APO is it written on the unit itself? 

 

I think that I'm leaning towards the 180mm solution, didn't quite know how much "loss" was involved with these "add-ons".

 

Thanks again

 

Preben

[jaapv]

Yes, it is marked Apo-Extender. Forget about the non-Apo. It belongs to a different age, optically.

[Michael Geschlecht]

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Hello Preben,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

All of the advice above is accurate. None-the-less: You might want to take some other points into consideration:

No extender, APO or otherwise, will add to image quality. Some extenders, like the APO extenders written about above, will take away little from eventual image quality. Sometimes the amount may be so small that it is not significant or noticeable. Non-APO extenders can often take perfectly acceptable photos & are often quite useful within certain parameters without having significant loss in image quality.

 

Part of an extender's ability to provide an image of acceptable image quality depends on: The quality of the image that the prime lens can create without an extender.

 

Whatever abberations exist in the original lens will be multiplied by the magnification of the extender & then POSSIBLY effected by the combination of the 2 different optical systems together.

 

That is 1 of the reasons why some extenders are designed for 1 specific lens or for 1 specific group of lenses.

 

But: You brought up an interesting point: Extenders, properly combined with a carefully chosen set of lenses can cut the cost & bulk of a photographic outfit.

 

This is an important consideration in many sets of circumstances.

 

A 1.4X extender will require +1 stop of additional exposure. A 2X extender requires +2 stops of additional exposure. Exposure compensation is usually done automatically by a behind the lens meter. There is usually nothing more for you to do than to put the extender between the lens & the camera.

 

Some lenses that are not at their best at the maximum & near maximum apertures (ie: Some High Speed Lenses) need to be stopped down to medium apertures such as F4, F5.6 & F8 in order to produce acceptable images when combined with an extender. Some lenses with extenders attached are not at their best when the lens is closed down to smaller apertures than those just listed. Not all versions of lenses of a given focal length (ie: F2 90mm as opposed to F2.8 90mm) do equally well with the same extender. 

 

This combination of medium apertures with 1 or 2 stops of needed compensation for the extenders means that: To produce acceptable results: A portion of the photos taken will most likely need to be taken on a reasonably stable tripod with a reasonably strong tripod head & cable release.

 

But: In return for this you can sometimes save money on equipment, reduce the amount of equipment that needs to be carried & still come up with equivalent photos within the limitations of what is written above.

 

Extenders are a viable consideration in a number of circumstances.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[pridbor]

Wow, that's the kind analysis I was hoping for And yes I think you all have good points !!!

 

I think that I will buy ithe extende as it's rather inexpensive $50 so If I win the auction, so certainly not an APO!

 

But I will still be looking for a tele lens, but maybe after a little time

 

 

Thanks all, I have only a few hours to bid so we shall see what expires

 

Preben

[Hugh 38]

Good   advice  above. 

 

If  you a re  using  a Leicaflex  SL  or  SL2  then   you  need  the   SL / SL2  extender  , but  note   the  extender  for  the  Leicaflex  SL  / SL2   is  a  bit  awkward  to  use  as   it   does  not have   the  lens  linkages  so    you  have  to  stop  down .  The  R  extender   and  newer  ,  have  the  linkages  so a re  a lot  easier   to  use. 

 

I  have  used the    R  2 x    extender  on  a  Telyt350    and  got  some   great pictures  of   birds. 

[MarkP]

I've used my 2xAPO-Extender a bit now on the 2.0/50 Summicron-R v2, 2.8/28-90 Vario-Elmarit-R, and 4.0/80-200 Vario-Elmar-R.

Very slight reduction in IQ but does indeed keep the system more compact.

[pridbor]

Well gents I heard you on the APO but I found them to be rather expensive, for my use as well as my level.  I'm at best an amateur so I use automatic modes "where offered", so I'm not sure that I will be able to tell the difference in final image quality as I'm sure most of you gents here are ! I mean that sincerely. 

 

So I managed to buy the non APO for less than 50 CHF !! we shall see if that's also what it's worth   Otherwise I can use it as a talking piece on my desk.

 

I should now be busy taking Photos, and I have started to, but I do like to know my equipment, such that I can take bad pictures knowing that it's me not the camera at fault 

 

Thanks all for taking time to educate me.

 

Preben

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Preben,

 

Don't forget to keep in touch & tell us how things are going.

 

Photos in the appropriate Sections, both in terms of gear & in terms of subjects as per your interests, are always interesting.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[pridbor]

Yes I will do my best not to forget looking in frequently

 

I will. The first report is that I won the Auction for the 2x Extender, and I just couldn't help myself from buying a vario-Elmar 75-200mm lens too from the same guy.

 

These devices were so inexpensive that I don't dare have too high hopes as to their condition, despite the seller proclaimed them to be "hardly used" or such terms. I won't find out for a while as I'm in the US and I bought them in Switzerland so it will have to wait another almost 2 months before I go back there and can put my hands on them.

 

Thanks again for your insight

 

Preben

[pridbor]

So I took Jaap's advice and bought the Apo-telyt 180 3.4 (too) I was even so lucky that my wife got excited about the auction

 

But now I have to wait until I'm back in Switzerland to go and get them, that's a bit harder the wait I mean. The good news is that I need to concentrate on taking some photos, and verify that both cameras are working OK. I did do a preliminary test of the 2 light meters by. Pointing them at the same spot and verify timing. They appeared to be rather close the R3 a little lower indication than the R4.

 

I must confess that I had forgotten how heavy these are compared with the " modern" point and shoot cameras! I have a Panasonic Tz 10 or something like that. Well I was used to it before so...

 

Preben

[jaapv]

You won't regret it. The lens very good, especially at longer distances. With a lens of that age it is always a good idea to have it CLA-d by an independent repair person. Will van Manen calls it window-cleaning

[pridbor]

Well I promised to keep you posted, so here's the first update. I thought that I was ready with both my R3/4 cameras, but I cheated so I paid the price I think.

 

I shot color in the R4 and B/W in the R3. The color images show false light at the bottom of all/most images, and that's where I cheated as I didn't take the time to replace all the seals, but took the chance that it was only the R3 needing it. So it's back to the drawing board with the R4, although I do believe that it will be OK when seals are replaced as the images looked OK at a first glance.

 

Now the R3 where I shot B/W, first 15 images went well, and then I experienced trouble with the the film not being pulled forward any longer!!! so only 10 good images in B/W but they looked really good to my eyes !!!! I will upload an image for your evaluation when I get back to my computer with all my SW programs as I seemingly can only upload up to 500k image sizes.

 

Where do you suggest that I upload them to, in this thread or another generic image thread, which I don't know where is (still learning the in's and out's of this site

[dkCambridgeshire]

Well I promised to keep you posted, so here's the first update. I thought that I was ready with both my R3/4 cameras, but I cheated so I paid the price I think.

 

I shot color in the R4 and B/W in the R3. The color images show false light at the bottom of all/most images, and that's where I cheated as I didn't take the time to replace all the seals, but took the chance that it was only the R3 needing it. So it's back to the drawing board with the R4, although I do believe that it will be OK when seals are replaced as the images looked OK at a first glance.

 

Now the R3 where I shot B/W, first 15 images went well, and then I experienced trouble with the the film not being pulled forward any longer!!! so only 10 good images in B/W but they looked really good to my eyes !!!! I will upload an image for your evaluation when I get back to my computer with all my SW programs as I seemingly can only upload up to 500k image sizes.

 

Where do you suggest that I upload them to, in this thread or another generic image thread, which I don't know where is (still learning the in's and out's of this site

 

 

 

Consider posting some pics of your sculptures in the 'OTHER' section of the Photo Forum http://www.l-camera-forum.com/forum/13-other/   but post a link to same in this thread 

 

dunk