Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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Have any of you X1D owners added the new firmware? Noticeable changes?

 

Apart from the new features, no. But I've only had mine for a month and I seem to have lucked out and I've had zero card issues, zero heat issues, zero crashes etc...

 

Even though I already have other mini MF systems I also don't have buyers remorse. If anything I like the camera a bit more now that I'm getting used to it. There's still a lot it needs (reviewing images in the EVF for a start) and the start up will be a non starter for some. It does, however, have that "X" factor. Something that just makes you want to use it and like it, regardless of its quirks.

 

Very much looking forward to the 120mm and the 22mm.

 

Gordon

[IkarusJohn]

I still can't get over the SL or X1D comparison in this thread (sorry for returning to the topic - not like me, I know).  On another thread, a poster decided to get an X1D instead of the new TL2  

 

I like the X1D concept, and once it's a bit more mature, I will look at it again; but comparing it to the SL or TL2 seems very odd to me.  Surely, if you have a need for an SLR alternative, the SL is the choice; if you want something pocketable and don't mind APS-C, the TL2 is an option; if you understand and relish the rangefinder experience, then the M is the only choice; and if you want portable medium format, with the benefits and shortcomings that entails, then the X1D is the one.

 

I can imagine people doing cross platform comparisons, selecting the X1D for its cool factor (it is very cool), then complaining that the lenses are slow, larger than they thought, the EVF is not that good, start up and write times too long, EVF blackout too long, shutter delay too long etc etc.  The point is, it's a medium format camera, for Pete's sake!  Try going out with half of Neil's kit, then complain.  Anyone with experience in the Hasselblad 500 series cameras (or any of their digitals for that matter), or even the S007 will appreciate the compact and light benefits of the X1D, and will put up with its shortcomings.

 

But not the comparators, I guess.  If I sat down with a piece of paper and wrote out what I want in a camera (something not enough of us do, I'd bet), I'm pretty sure I'd find the choice would be, much like Peter's - X1D or M10, and the M10 would win for the simple fact that the choice of lenses is better, wider and more flexible.

 

Cheers

John

[EoinC]

I still can't get over the SL or X1D comparison in this thread...

For me, John, the comparison was simply a means of introducing to LUF a thread about a camera (now two cameras) which doesn't have a direct comparison in the Leica range (mirrorless digital MF). I agree that the SL / X1D comparison is meaningless, but at least I've had an opportunity to get some flavour on both the X1D and GFX50.

I like reading Gordon's reports on his objective and subjective experiences - An appreciated balance.

 

I would suggest not being too concerned about the validity of the comparison reference. That's just a human trait.

[Peter H]

I'm sure that for some people, it's simply a question of the cost being similar, and if photography's a hobby you enjoy, there's maybe no need to be scientific about it in a photographic sense.

 

For some people the choice may be between an SL and a bike, or between an X1D or a trip to Iceland with their current camera.  For them, they are reasonable choices to be made.

[IkarusJohn]

All true, and I do appreciate the time Gordon spends on the forum - I look forward to reading his opinions and experiences.

 

I have come to the conclusion (being a gear freak) that certainly I don't spend enough time thinking about what works for me (in the context of technological developments) rather than what's shiny and new.  That's what brought me to Leica in the first place, and it is also what encouraged me to do a great clean out earlier this year.  For me, and I appreciate we're all different, having a Hasselblad SWC meets a nostalgic need (slides in 6x6); the SL meets my SLR needs (colour, with the range the zooms provide and with the latest technology); and the M system gives me the best lenses in the 21-75 range (albeit in B&W and film).

 

The X1D would, instinctively, replace the M system.  What I'd gain would be bigger files, which I don't need, and I'd lose the flexibility of the 135mm format.  M43 and APS-C are alternatives, but I am a stick in the mud - I understand  the focal lengths of the traditional "full frame", the lens choice is fantastic without getting huge, and the gains in image quality justify everything being just a bit bigger.

 

I'd take the trip to Iceland, but time is the issue there, not just cost.  I'm thinking a TL2 might just fill a gap for me, allowing me to put a camera in my pocket when the SL isn't justified, and still put a really nice lens on it.

[Jeff S]

Just by noting that they're different, the comparison has been made. Comparisons can include similarities and differences. Nothing surprising to me in comparing two attractive modern camera options.

 

Jeff

[geetee1972]

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 I'm thinking a TL2 might just fill a gap for me, allowing me to put a camera in my pocket when the SL isn't justified, and still put a really nice lens on it.

 

I've been thinking about this also except I couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money on an APS-C camera, not sure why but it just seems like so much money for something of that nature. A second hand T however does make more sense as you can buy them for about the same price as a second hand Fuji X-Pro 2.

Edited July 12, 2017 by geetee1972

[wattsy]

I've been thinking about this also except I couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money on an APS-C camera, not sure why but it just seems like so much money for something of that nature. A second hand T however does make more sense as you can buy them for about the same price as a new Fuji X-Pro 2.

 

 

I have seen the T new for £699 a few times in the recent past and considered buying it for occasional use with my M lenses. However, once you add in the cost of the M adaptor (£200?) and the EVF attachment (£400?) it no longer seems like much of a bargain and it doesn't interest me for that kind of money.

[geetee1972]

I have seen the T new for £699 a few times in the recent past and considered buying it for occasional use with my M lenses. However, once you add in the cost of the M adaptor (£200?) and the EVF attachment (£400?) it no longer seems like much of a bargain and it doesn't interest me for that kind of money.

These are good points. I already have the adapter for the SL but would need an EVF. Which EVF can you use with it?

[wattsy]

These are good points. I already have the adapter for the SL but would need an EVF. Which EVF can you use with it?

 

 

I think it only takes the 020 Visoflex EVF which appears to cost £390.

[ramarren]

When it was first released I considered buying the T, but when I put one on the table next to my M9 it just didn't seem so much more compact or light weight that I was inspired. I did like its feel, the new world ergonomics, and the sound of its shutter a lot.

 

That was a while ago. The TL2 looks to be an excellent upgrade over the T. But I'm not interested: I'm just completely satisfied with my current system of M-D and SL for what 35 FF format can do. An X1D remains a potential niche use camera for me, with the ultrawide lens and the macro lens. But as Time goes on, I become more and more content with my current systems... the X1D option seems to be less appealing now simply because I'm enjoying the use of my Hasselblad V so much still, next to the digital Leicas. 

 

I have other interests that want my attention too.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I've been thinking about this also except I couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money on an APS-C camera, not sure why but it just seems like so much money for something of that nature. A second hand T however does make more sense as you can buy them for about the same price as a second hand Fuji X-Pro 2.

If someone is silly enough to let an X-Pro 2 go for $600-800, snap it up.  It can be used as casually as the T, and has a great optical viewfinder.  Of course it will cry out for some lenses, so that has to be figured into your budget.  But the 35/2.0 is enough to justify it.

[geetee1972]

If someone is silly enough to let an X-Pro 2 go for $600-800, snap it up.  It can be used as casually as the T, and has a great optical viewfinder.  Of course it will cry out for some lenses, so that has to be figured into your budget.  But the 35/2.0 is enough to justify it.

I'd just use my 35 Summicron on it but your point about the price is noted. A second hand T is much cheaper than even a second hand X-Pro 2.

[scott kirkpatrick]

The Summicron 2.0 might be a bit bigger than the Fuji 35/2.0 and might give greater edge sharpness and a different color, but the Fuji 35/2.0 has been welded onto my X-Pro 2 since I got it.  It has AF, nice at 2.0, makes perfect images at 2.8 to 5.6.  When I head out to a restaurant, it makes little "take me" squeaks that only I can hear.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

The Summicron 2.0 might be a bit bigger than the Fuji 35/2.0 and might give greater edge sharpness and a different color, but the Fuji 35/2.0 has been welded onto my X-Pro 2 since I got it.  It has AF, nice at 2.0, makes perfect images at 2.8 to 5.6.  When I head out to a restaurant, it makes little "take me" squeaks that only I can hear.

 

I hear those noises as well. But not from my XPro2. It's my TL and 23mm f2.0.

 

It's funny how some cameras talk to us and others don't. And I'm still working out why. If I knew I'd have a lot less gear.....

 

Gordon

[IkarusJohn]

Off topic, but how do you find the 23mm Summicron-T, Gordon?

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Off topic, but how do you find the 23mm Summicron-T, Gordon?

 

I'm not normally a 35mm equiv person. I'm a 50 shooter. But I really like the T23mm. And I use it more than the 35mm.

 

Small, sharp and i like the way it draws. It's quickly becoming my version of an X100.

 

We're waaay off topic but I think all the T lenses don't get the praise they deserve. Maybe because if they make an APSC SL and people find out how good the TL glass is they'll move to the TL. It's almost like Leica is hiding the TL lenses.

 

I'm certain that if Leica made either a Q or X-Vario (with an EVF) shaped TL they'd never keep up with demand.

 

Gordon

[mmradman]

>>>snip<<<

 

I'm certain that if Leica made either a Q or X-Vario (with an EVF) shaped TL they'd never keep up with demand.

 

Gordon

Agree with that 100%.

 

Maybe Leica keeps demand low in order not to stretch own resources by making cameras like TL2. Lets get real, this is 2017 and digital has been round for some time now including EVF technology. Who really wants a digital system or even compact camera without built in viewfinder of one kind or other, maybe someone who buys for the sake of Red Dot?

[Guest VVJ]

Lets get real, this is 2017 and digital has been round for some time now including EVF technology. Who really wants a digital system or even compact camera without built in viewfinder of one kind or other, maybe someone who buys for the sake of Red Dot?

 

The concept of the T was/is pretty clear.  It is a camera for IPhone users who want to move up to a "real camera" but still keep the familiarity of an iPhone like interface.

 

As such it doesn't need an EVF nor a flash...

 

With the TL2 Leica, for good or for bad, religiously stuck to its form factor, its design principles, ignored (a large group of) users who wanted an integrated EVF and even removed the little pop-up flash...

 

Are iPhone users really migrating to the T?  Are they willing to pay $2-3K for an APS-C lens?  Not sure...  but Leica surely continues to think so...

 

I have the impression that a lot of the people in the T forum at least shoot 1 or 2 other Leica cameras but perhaps the forum does not give a good idea of the diversity of T shooters...

Edited July 14, 2017 by JorisV

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[mmradman]

Good luck to Leica with this iPhone enhancement concept. Target Leica market may not be bothered with price of TL as it is "cool" however for one TL2 you can buy several iPhones yet several iPhones are thickness of one TL2, guess which one also makes phone calls.