Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[wellfleet]

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As expected the GPS unit will be mounted via the hot shoe and a reference to the form in the shipped camera boxes.

 

 

From Shar @ Hasselblad...

 

Yes, it will be placed on the hotshoe.  The module is not available yet, but if you’ve ordered a camera, a form will come with it that will allow you to register to receive the module.

 

Best,

 

Shar

 

SharBarra Taylor

Hasselblad Technical Support 

Hasselblad Bron, Inc. | 1080A Garden State Road, Union, NJ 07083

(908) 754-5800 | direct 

(800) 367-6434 x304

staylor@hasselbladbron.com www.hasselbladbron.com

 

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[Guest]

Well that might have the advantage of saving some battery juice, so it is might not be a bad thing after all.

[tom0511]

I don't disagree, but is it possible that Hasselblad (and perhaps Fuji too) have delayed release of their important new cameras so that they can iron things out before they start selling them in what would otherwise be a beta version?

 

I hope so for those who plan to buy one, but I have my doubts it would be everything being ironed out.

But then its ok for me if new products have some imperfections. I can understand it. Its allways if one brings something new there are some risks that things dont work in the first step. Look at cars. Every car is more perfect after the facelift 3 years after coming to market. You can choose if you want a very new product, or if you want one where you ca be sure everything works well.

But as an early adopter its ignorant if you believe you can be sure that everythings works well in the first moment.

[Peter H]

I hope so for those who plan to buy one, but I have my doubts it would be everything being ironed out.

But then its ok for me if new products have some imperfections. I can understand it. Its allways if one brings something new there are some risks that things dont work in the first step. Look at cars. Every car is more perfect after the facelift 3 years after coming to market. You can choose if you want a very new product, or if you want one where you ca be sure everything works well.

But as an early adopter its ignorant if you believe you can be sure that everythings works well in the first moment.

 

 

Yes, I agree.

 

I used the word "everything" colloquially. Nothing is ever perfect.

[steppenw0lf]

Stefan, I wonder why you continue to rail on and on about Hasselblad and the X1D when it is perfectly clear by your notes that you have no interest in buying one. ?? Say you don't want one, don't trust Hasselblad, dislike their policies, their communications, whatever, and be done with it. It gets tiresome to read a dozen posts every morning ranting about the same thing when the conclusion has been the same since the start of the thread.

 

I and others on this thread actually have an interest in the X1D, in BUYING and using the X1D. And whatever convenience features it might have, or lack, the fact of its basics (mirrorless body, large high quality sensor, excellent lenses, etc etc) remain the same and are the reason for our interest. Built in GPS vs add-on ... eh? Just not a big deal. There are LOTS of features on my SL and other cameras I don't use very frequently if at all. About the only digital camera that I use almost all of the features on is my Leica M-D ... I say almost because I've yet to use "continuous drive mode" other than to test it.

 

I'm very happy to see the X1D finally shipping to customers and look forward to seeing a final spec example in the flesh some time soon. If a 22mm-ish lens surfaces in the next year, it's going to be a very hard camera for me to resist buying. It is not in any way whatever a one-for-one replacement for my SL, for a page long list of reasons, so if I only had the opportunity and money to buy one of them, well, I have it already.

 

Godfrey,

nice that you are interested in me and astonishing that you take the time to wonder if I buy an X1D or not. I did not know that you are so interested in my personal plans and my budget. But maybe rather stick to the topic of more general interest of what "interesting developments" are going on in this (mirrorless) area. There is a lot going on, so why should I suddenly stop reading and thinking about it ? (This is what you suggested, correct ?  Why do you suggest that ? )

If you have anything new about the mirrorless topic, great.  Anything else, no thanks.

 

I heard/read also your plans about buying this camera under certain circumstances - already several times. But I must confess I am actually not so interested in your personal next steps, to discuss this here in more depth.  Maybe one thing we have in common - I can also currently only afford one of the two and I also have it already.    Yes, it is the SL.

 

As said, simply back to the topic - there are still a lot of things "unclear", to say the least. And good to know that you need to place an order or are expected to make another sort of "commitment" to be allowed to place an entry here. Do all the other readers/contributors also comply to this rule ?

I thought it is a thread of "better SL or better X1D" while having an interest in both is not forbidden and I did not know that having at least one of them was a necessary prerequisite ....  (but in this regard I actually qualify.)        (Do all the others as well ? Is anybody going to verify this ?  )

Edited January 10, 2017 by steppenw0lf

[LD_50]

This thread is devolving into a mess.

 

Hasselblad should be clear about the specs of a shipping camera that has been on sale to the public for months.

 

Leica's S system reliability issues are completely unrelated.

 

It doesn't matter whether anyone wants or does not want various features if YOU want or don't want them. At the end of the day Hasselblad should clarify what they're offering so every consumer can make an educated decision.

 

I've followed this camera since introduction, sought out a demo test (complete waste of time other than to validate ergonomics as the firmware was nowhere near representative of a shipping product), and continue to wait for a shipping version to demo. It's strange then to read the very binary reactions here (Thom Hogan wrote about this recently http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/photography-has-become.html):

 

1- It needs all these features (GPS, a million AF points, face detection, etc) to be competitive with whatever other camera. What an amazing innovation to fit a big sensor in a smaller camera! Hasselblad is starting a revolution. Nikon and Canon and Phase and Fuji are doomed!!!

 

2- IQ and camera size are all I care about. All these other features are meaningless to me because my M3 never had any of this but produced great prints. Shipping dates don't matter because I already have everything I need. I'm too smart to rely on a new product. Whenever they ship and whatever they ship is fine as long as IQ and size are right. Those of you who want more or who want was sold to you are wrong.

 

What about the rest of us who want what Hasselblad said they were going to ship when they said they were going to ship it? Of course I can and will vote with my money on the handling of this launch and the final shipping product. Of course it's also a joke they can't simply and clearly describe what's gone wrong with the shipping date. It's a joke I can pay for and receive lenses with zero communication as to when the camera I paid for will arrive and what it will include. It's a joke I have to "register" to receive the GPS functionality I already paid for and thought was included in the camera because they said it was. It's a joke I have to find all this out on forums.

 

All that said the discourse here has become very much aimed at the posters and less at Hasselblad and I don't understand it.

[ramarren]

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The title of this thread is "Leica SL vs Hasselblad X1D" and the OP was asking which of these two excellent cameras would be more suitable to his/her needs.

 

As soon as the focus of the thread drifted into rants about HB being late, complaints about features, etc etc, it was off into the weeds and ridiculous. Amusing... yes. But a source of information upon which to base a purchase decision...? Nonsensical, a complete waste of time and bandwidth.

[Peter H]

Being a bit late on delivery (though Hasselblad were saying back say in October that the first deliveries would be in January, so it's not that much of a surprise) and the GPS issue are well within the realms of what is normal and to be expected with a brand new camera. I understand that if built-in GPS is essential then it is disappointing, but at least it was discovered before shipping, unlike some problems with cameras.

 

Hasselblad have been unusually open about the release of this camera. Compare with Leica's secrecy about the still-unconfirmed M10 for example, which is their normal way of working, or Fuji's announcement of the GFX50s many months ago. At least we've had a chance to test the X1D in various stages of its development and talk to Hasselblad about it as it progresses. I have found them helpful and responsive which is one reason why I am enthusiastic about the camera.

 

These are all different and valid ways of releasing new products. Not a "joke" at all.

[meerec]

Being a bit late on delivery (though Hasselblad were saying back say in October that the first deliveries would be in January, so it's not that much of a surprise) and the GPS issue are well within the realms of what is normal and to be expected with a brand new camera. I understand that if built-in GPS is essential then it is disappointing, but at least it was discovered before shipping, unlike some problems with cameras.

 

Hasselblad have been unusually open about the release of this camera. Compare with Leica's secrecy about the still-unconfirmed M10 for example, which is their normal way of working, or Fuji's announcement of the GFX50s many months ago. At least we've had a chance to test the X1D in various stages of its development and talk to Hasselblad about it as it progresses. I have found them helpful and responsive which is one reason why I am enthusiastic about the camera.

 

These are all different and valid ways of releasing new products. Not a "joke" at all.

HB promised me the camera to be available in Aug 2016

[Peter H]

HB promised me the camera to be available in Aug 2016

 

 

Promised?

[steppenw0lf]

If a statement of facts is a rant is in the eye of the beholder.

That the dates have been missed several times are simple facts.

That in many places functionality is described - even today - which is not existing in the "delivered" camera is another fact.

It is unclear if Hasselblad spread this false information, or if it was based on a third party that malvolently added these features.(without Hasselblad noticing it).

 

Hasselblad is not helping to spread correct information about this. No warnings or corrections were published in advance.

So in reality, they were not "open". (not according to common understanding).

Only after the fact, interested people found out what was going on. Normally, info had to be asked from ambassadors or from people just having a demo or just receiving their ordered item. So the status of current info is quite accidental, which is reflected in the often chaotic discussions here.

Edited January 11, 2017 by steppenw0lf

[Peter H]

If a statement of facts is a rant is in the eye of the beholder.

That the dates have been missed several times are simple facts.

That in many places functionality is described - even today - which is not existing in the "delivered" camera is another fact.

It is unclear if Hasselblad spread this false information, or if it was based on a third party that malvolently added these features.(without Hasselblad noticing it).

 

Hasselblad is not helping to spread correct information about this. No warnings or corrections were published in advance.

So in reality, they were not "open". (not according to common understanding).

Only after the fact, interested people found out what was going on. Normally, info had to be asked from ambassadors or from people just having a demo or just receiving their ordered item. So the status of current info is quite accidental, which is reflected in the often chaotic discussions here.

I think it shows how different we all are.

 

I never shared the outrage expressed by some over the the various failings of Leica cameras and lenses over the years because it feels to me that it's part and parcel of buying relatively high-tech products from small companies.

 

I feel well disposed towards Leica and when a lug falls off a new camera or a sensor corrodes or whatever, I tend to feel that it wasn't gross negligence or some other heinous failure but the sort of unfortunate thing that is almost bound to happen in one form or another when you take into account all the circumstances of a new product launch in the market we're talking about.

 

Many people think I'm over generous in thinking this way when they are up-in-arms about being let down and whilst I sympathise, I very rarely share such strong negative feelings to companies like Leica and Hasselblad. I am glad they exist and do their best to make interesting products that I am free to buy or not buy as I choose. They have given me far more pleasure than problems over the years, and I'm happy about that.

 

So yes, it's all in the eye of the beholder, as you say.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Peter H

[Guest]

Being a bit late on delivery (though Hasselblad were saying back say in October that the first deliveries would be in January, so it's not that much of a surprise) and the GPS issue are well within the realms of what is normal and to be expected with a brand new camera. I understand that if built-in GPS is essential then it is disappointing, but at least it was discovered before shipping, unlike some problems with cameras.

 

Hasselblad have been unusually open about the release of this camera. Compare with Leica's secrecy about the still-unconfirmed M10 for example, which is their normal way of working, or Fuji's announcement of the GFX50s many months ago. At least we've had a chance to test the X1D in various stages of its development and talk to Hasselblad about it as it progresses. I have found them helpful and responsive which is one reason why I am enthusiastic about the camera.

 

These are all different and valid ways of releasing new products. Not a "joke" at all.

 

I agree Peter with what you say.  IF GPS was essential to my photography, I would be a little miffed. On the other hand whenever I have had GPS on with my SL, I have noticed a shortening of battery life and would even expect that but not like it! Perhaps to be external with its own batteries, preferably 2 AA or similar might be a better proposition all together.

 

With regard to the camera, I think any modern camera is good for the majority of people. I happen to think the X1D gets closer to my ideal camera than the SL. I don't like the grip and weight of the SL - together I find it uncomfortable to use for a day out (when holding it in my hand). Round my neck it depends on which M lens I have as to the pain level. The grip on the X1D after 2 hours of using it on separate demo occasions, felt a lot better and the weight is slightly less ..... it is a very subjective topic. Lets just say it is more comfortable to hold.

 

Firmware updates and lens updates are available on the Hasselblad website.

 

I look forward to the camera and lenses. My only wish would be some sort of official announcement from either DJI or Hasselblad as to the new arrangements going forward that's all.

[meerec]

Promised?

Well yes. The local Australian distributor for Hasselblad in Sydney promised the delivery in mid to end of Aug. I remember well because I was spending money on the SL-90-280 lens in June when i talked to him.

[Guest]

Many people think I'm over generous in thinking this way when they are up-in-arms about being let down and whilst I sympathise, I very rarely share such strong negative feelings to companies like Leica and Hasselblad. I am glad they exist and do their best to make interesting products that I am free to buy or not buy as I choose. They have given me far more pleasure than problems over the years, and I'm happy about that.

Fully agree with that sentiment.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Guest

[Peter H]

Well yes. The local Australian distributor for Hasselblad in Sydney promised the delivery in mid to end of Aug. I remember well because I was spending money on the SL-90-280 lens in June when i talked to him.

 

 

They were clearly wrong to do that.

 

The UK dealers that I spoke to in the summer said they'd had no indication from Hasselblad about the timing of  deliveries. The first clear indication I got was from Hasselblad in October when they said that Late December was possible but January was far more realistic, and the numbers would be small so some people would be waiting longer. 

 

If it really was a promise then you should take it up with them if you haven't already. 

[meerec]

They were clearly wrong to do that.

 

The UK dealers that I spoke to in the summer said they'd had no indication from Hasselblad about the timing of  deliveries. The first clear indication I got was from Hasselblad in October when they said that Late December was possible but January was far more realistic, and the numbers would be small so some people would be waiting longer. 

 

If it really was a promise then you should take it up with them if you haven't already.

 

I have no intention of buying it so there's no point taking it up with them.

I spent a day with X1D and H6D in December at workshop organised by them. Then they promised delivery in mid Feb not any earlier and quantities practically close to zero (2 units maybe for all Australia), so really availability not earlier than end of 2017 or start of 2018

[thighslapper]

Leica ...... Hasselblad .... pot calling the kettle black ..... 

 

Low volume suppliers always have a problem with expectation versus reality ........ and most of the hype is generated by the potential buyers rather than the manufacturers anyway .....

Edited January 11, 2017 by thighslapper

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[ramarren]

I have no intention of buying it so there's no point taking it up with them.

I spent a day with X1D and H6D in December at workshop organised by them. Then they promised delivery in mid Feb not any earlier and quantities practically close to zero (2 units maybe for all Australia), so really availability not earlier than end of 2017 or start of 2018

 

 

So all your comments about how Hasselblad or a distributor didn't give you full information, promised you one thing or another, were all about a camera that you already knew you weren't going to buy. What was the point of your fuss? 

 

As I said, most of this long long thread has been just a lot of hot air and nonsense, a complete waste of time. 

[meerec]

So all your comments about how Hasselblad or a distributor didn't give you full information, promised you one thing or another, were all about a camera that you already knew you weren't going to buy. What was the point of your fuss? 

 

As I said, most of this long long thread has been just a lot of hot air and nonsense, a complete waste of time.

 

Excuse me, what "fuss" ? What do you mean? I think you've been stuck in this thread for way too long and you show all symptoms of being tired and angry. Relax and let it go. Or I will just block you.

 

Buying is a journey, it's a process.

 

Even if at some point of that journey I decide I am not buying, am I not entitled in life to be informed about what is coming up next? Does it not make sense to engage with the dealers and community? And learn first hand about the camera even if I decided not to buy it, at least for now? Is everyone on this forum on this thread buying the X1D?

 

Tell you more. I actually travelled 300km to Canberra from Sydney to be at a day long workshop with Hasselblad in December to evaluate the X1D myself hands on, rather than spending time listening to all these rants here on this thread. More practical and useful approach. Even if I'm not buying the X1D. What have you done to add value to us?

 

Here is an image shot with the early firmware X1D-50C featuring the H6D-100C body in hands of my friend.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/miurbmzqko152yf/B1836211.jpg?dl=0