M240 Special Edition Concept

[lm_user]

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Any interest in a M240 without an IR Filter in front of the sensor? Trade off is that IR filters on the lens would be required. Benefit would be sharper images due to elimination of the IR filter.

 

Trade off of sharpness vs IR contamination similar to the M8. Just take it a step further and completely eliminate the IR filter.

 

Of course, cyan color shift would be corrected in camera.

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[davidcolemandc]

And would it be called an M8.3? I'll pass.

 

David

[lct]

The sensor stack of the M8 is 0.5mm thick vs 0.8mm for M240 AFAIK. Not sure if it makes an actual difference in acutance but i still prefer the apparent sharpness of my M8.2 vs that of my M240. I would not spend the big bucks on an old design though so i'd prefer a thinner sensor stack on the next M if any. The trend shown by the SL (1mm?) doesn't look favorable though.

[jaapv]

You mean the IR filter glass   After the hue and cry of the IR sensitivity of the M8 I would notbe surprised if Leica were very hesitant about this modification.

[lm_user]

You mean the IR filter glass After the hue and cry of the IR sensitivity of the M8 I would notbe surprised if Leica were very hesitant about this modification.

Customers were irate - but is using a filter really a big deal if the result us a better image?

 

I understand there are circumstances where the filter causes unwanted reflections. However, i have never encountered this in 4 years of IR filter use

 

Several threads suggest that people use IR filters on the M240 snywat to get good colors despite having to fix cyan corners in post. Jaap - I believe you stated that you use IR filters on focal lengths of 50mm and longer...

[lm_user]

You mean the IR filter glass After the hue and cry of the IR sensitivity of the M8 I would notbe surprised if Leica were very hesitant about this modification.

I would add that customers were irate because they had unmet expectations after purchasing the M8. Leica did not make it clear that filters would be required to make the system work properly. Had their design choice to minimize IR sensitivity in favor of acutance been made clear the brew ha ha might not have followed

[Steve Ash]

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The reflections become apparent if you take pictures in a dark scene with light sources in the frame, light poles in the late evening.

 

 

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[jdlaing]

I think you are confusing IR cut filter with anti aliasing filter. IR cut has nothing to do with sharpness. If you remove it from the cover glass you only have to add it back on the lens.

[lm_user]

The reflections become apparent if you take pictures in a dark scene with light sources in the frame, light poles in the late evening.

 

 

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Not saying it can't happen - I just have not seen it.

 

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[Steve Ash]

Nice shot. Maybe it depends on the lens as well ?

 

 

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[lm_user]

Nice shot. Maybe it depends on the lens as well ?

 

 

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I think it does happen - I am confident someone can post an example - just not as often as the Leica Forum would have us believe...     In the shot I posted there is something funky going on in the lower left hand corner

[lm_user]

I did a number of night shots in Sweden a few years back and never noticed an issue.

 

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[lm_user]

I think you are confusing IR cut filter with anti aliasing filter. IR cut has nothing to do with sharpness. If you remove it from the cover glass you only have to add it back on the lens.

 

 

If that were true - Leica would not have used a 0.5mm thick IR cover glass on the M8 in the first edition of the digital rangefinder and Leica would have chosen a 1mm thick IR cover glass for the M240 and we would not have purple synthetic fabrics....

[jdlaing]

The thickness of the glass has nothing to do with IR. IR cut filter is a coating.

[lct]

0.5mm  is the whole M8's sensor stack IINW. i suspect that a thinner sensor stack would be too fragile for a FF sensor but i may be wrong. 

[jto555]

Customers were irate - but is using a filter really a big deal if the result us a better image?

 

I understand there are circumstances where the filter causes unwanted reflections. However, i have never encountered this in 4 years of IR filter use

 

Are you not just moving the filter from the image plane to infront of the lens? I am not trying to be funny here but if you need sharper images than the Leica can give, then you might need to move to MF. A Leica S should give sharper images at a cost of convience to use and a big hit to the bank account.

 

In saying all that and if you really want the filter removed have a look at this site:

 

https://www.lifepixel.com/

[jdlaing]

And something in the bottom left looks like wind blew the leaves.

[lm_user]

And something in the bottom left looks like wind blew the leaves.

Agreed - just odd that the leaves only moved at rhbottim of the tree

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Look here: Leica M

[pico]

Agreed - just odd that the leaves only moved at rhbottim of the tree

 

Here is one where the wind is evident in the upper right corner.

[lm_user]

Well -,this went about as well as expected.

 

Let me re-frame the question. Is there a trade off between IR filtration and acutance with digital sensors for rangefinder lenses?