Lux 50 Asph to Summi 50 AA

[darylgo]

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From the recently released book titled Summicron by Pierpaolo Ghisetti and Marco Cavina:

 

The use of this new optical glass developed in the Wetzlar forge (and then contracted for mass production to external glass factories) has suggested indeed the name Summicron, created by the suffix Summi- Which evokes a concept of superiority and absolute excellence) and the name Kron, or (in German) lanthan Kron, i.e. lanthanum Crown glass, with explicit reference to the new material used in its optical design, at the time unknown to the point that, in the Italian brochure of the time, literally translated as "glass of the lanthan wreath"...As a curiosity, there are prototypes just called Summikron, then converted to Summicron likely to soften the harsh teutonic feel of the original appellative.  

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[Jon Warwick]

So back a bit to the original topic. With the 50 APO, is it correct to think that

1) seeing resolution benefits at f5.6 on an M240 is tricky. Are the benefits more obvious on a Monochrom or are they also hard to spot?

2) with an M240 and 50 APO, chromatic aberration is better controlled?

3) On point 2, is CA the same thing as purple fringing (ie, you see it on branches and leaves against a sky, for example?)

4) With regards to other aberrations I see with the M240, I often note orange and blue colours (in little dotted form) that shouldn't be there - it's apparent normally in bright sunshine on things like distant rocky ground in landscapes, or I saw it when photographing a street scene and a "weaved" metal chair had these same colors too here and there. What exactly IS causing these orange and blue colors (is that also CA or something else?) Can these colored dots be controlled by certain lenses (eg, an APO?)

[lct]

1) seeing resolution benefits at f5.6 on an M240 is tricky. Are the benefits are more obvious on a Monochrom or are they also hard to spot? 

I don't think you could tell which is which at f/5.6 but i don't own an MM so i may be wrong.
2) with an M240 and 50 APO, chromatic aberration is better controlled?

Yes.
3) On point 2, is CA the same thing as purple fringing (ie, you see it on branches and leaves against a sky, for example?)

Purple fringing may be caused by CA, sensor blooming or a mix of both.
4) With regards to other aberrations I see with the M240, I often note orange and blue colours (in little dotted form) that shouldn't be there - it's apparent normally in bright sunshine on things like distant rocky ground in landscapes, or I saw it when photographing a street scene and a "weaved" metal chair had these same colors too here and there. What exactly IS causing these orange and blue colors (is that also CA or something else?) Can these colored dots be controlled by certain lenses (eg, an APO?)

Would be useful to show your pics. In so far as CA is concerned yes but CA doesn't explain everything. See question 3.

[james.liam]

So back a bit to the original topic. With the 50 APO, is it correct to think that

1) seeing resolution benefits at f5.6 on an M240 is tricky. Are the benefits more obvious on a Monochrom or are they also hard to spot?

On the Monochrom the greater resolving power of the APO (at all apertures) does become readily apparent, as does its ability to capture subtle textural details in low-light settings.

 

 

Two trenchant observations about the APO that stand out as useful reference points.

 

-Ming Thein, one of the more thoughtful minds out there and an aficionado of the 50 Summilux aptly noted that we are at the 'bleeding edge' of returns for the monetary investment.

 

-Thorsten von Overgaard commented on 50 APO images he initially did not care for, that upon further consideration, appeared to him as if there was no lens there at all.

 

Less is more?

[microview]

Somewhat off topic, except that it concerns 50mm lenses (Summarit 2.4 and Summilux ASPH) on Leica 262, can anyone explain ugly artefacts on leaves (areas framed in white). Is this a sensor effect? Pics taken within minutes of each other in bright sunny conditions. Interestingly, a series of images repeated with each lens at f5.6 and then 'shuffled' in LR6 and seen as a slide show had me puzzled as to which lens I was seeing, the 'cheapo' 2.4 or the costly 1.4.

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[microview]

Second image. Is it obvious here which pic was taken using which lens? I had to check from tiff nos and found I had it wrong! 

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[darylgo]

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Just a guess on the magenta leaves, the green channel is over exposed, leaving the red and blue channel to create magenta.  In each case the leaves are oriented in the same direction.  Go back to your dng to see if the green can be recovered either with adjustment for less exposure  or adjustment for green.  Look at your histogram prior to adjustment, you should see the green curve hitting the right edge if this is correct.    

[lct]

Blown highlights. I would try to shoot one stop slower or make some shade for the flowers. 

[otto.f]

I guess the first is 50lux and the second Elmar50

[microview]

I guess the first is 50lux and the second Elmar50

 

Nope. Lower pic is Summarit (not Elmar). I hadn't realised that you can't see metadata with 'saved for web' upload jpegs. 

[Stein K S]

Hi

I can recommend the nice & tiny Elmar-M in almost any way. My only issue with this lens is that I do not really "get used to" the bokeh. Hard to explain, but in my eyes the bokeh is more "washy" than my other Leica lenses. I know this is not an established term, but anyway... While pin sharp with very nice rendering in focus, the OOF looks more like movement blur than OOF... Anyone else with the same opinion?

 

I will, however, always keep this very nice little lens...

 

Stein

[Hayek]

Hi

I can recommend the nice & tiny Elmar-M in almost any way. My only issue with this lens is that I do not really "get used to" the bokeh. Hard to explain, but in my eyes the bokeh is more "washy" than my other Leica lenses. I know this is not an established term, but anyway... While pin sharp with very nice rendering in focus, the OOF looks more like movement blur than OOF... Anyone else with the same opinion?

 

I will, however, always keep this very nice little lens...

 

Stein

So-called "nervous" bokeh? The 50 Summicron v.5 has that same character and one I've never warmed to.

[Stein K S]

So-called "nervous" bokeh? The 50 Summicron v.5 has that same character and one I've never warmed to.

 

Hi and thanks!

 

And I guess so... nervous in its unique way...

 

Do you mean Cron v4...? I also own the Cron v4... and I must confess that I find the bokeh on this one quite different from the Elmar-M... and even quite pleasant

 

The very best from Stein

[lct]

[...] I can recommend the nice & tiny Elmar-M in almost any way. My only issue with this lens is that I do not really "get used to" the bokeh. Hard to explain, but in my eyes the bokeh is more "washy" than my other Leica lenses. I know this is not an established term, but anyway... While pin sharp with very nice rendering in focus, the OOF looks more like movement blur than OOF... Anyone else with the same opinion? [...]

 

Not really. Which version is yours? Compared to asph lenses, my 50/2.8 v2's bokeh is smoother around f/2.8 generally so details in OoF areas are softer which is what i'm after but other people may prefer more "busy" i.e. detailed bokeh. Compared to lenses discussed here, the 50/2.8 v2 is closer to 50/2 apo than 50/1.4 asph from this viewpoint.

 

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[Hayek]

I was referring to the present-day non-APO version. I find the bokeh a bit 'jumpy' at ƒ/2. Not my favorite and will likely sell it soon, since I prefer shooting wide-open. Maybe an Elmar M is a good idea.

The 50 Summilux is superb and luxuriant in comparison. Also seemingly sharper on-center at ƒ/2, maybe because of the smoother OOF. I miss that lens since it dropped on a cobblestone street and was lost to the ages. Heartbreaking.

I am consoling myself with a 50 Rigid that recently returned from a needed bath.

[BerndReini]

The difference between the Lux ASPH and Cron APO isn't dramatic in the first place, nor readily apparent on color sensors whether 18 or 24 MP are in play.

Truth be told all of Leica's 50s converge in performance once f/5.6 is reached, each with its own look. However, on center the APO is about as sharp at f/2 as the other become by f/5.6. Completely different story when looking at the MM, where 18 or 24 MP is far more than that in practice.

 

Just a hunch, but with the appearance of the SL 50/1.4 in 2017, you've got to wonder whether a refresh of the 50 M Summilux, introduced in 2004, might not be in the offing...

 

The difference is only dramatic from wide open to 2.8-4. The biggest difference is the transition from in focus to out-of-focus areas, which is very dramatic (instant) with the Apo. I own both and keep both, but I mostly keep my 50 1.4 on my film bodies and the 50 Apo on my digital cameras.

 

I don't believe that a significant refresh of the 50 1.4 aspherical for the M is possible. The SL has a much bigger throat size and Leica will be able to make an optically advanced smilax for the SL, which will also be significantly bigger than the M version. I don't believe there is much room for improvement for the 50 1.4 aspherical M lens.

[freitz]

To the OP. I chose the Summilux about 1 year ago when faced with the same decision. Not sure if that helps.

 

But If I had the APO I would want a Noctilux to pair, summilux for me kind of kills 2 birds with one stone. Not the best at either .95 or sharpness at edges of the APO but good enough to be used similar to both purposes.

[Stein K S]

Not really. Which version is yours? Compared to asph lenses, my 50/2.8 v2's bokeh is smoother around f/2.8 generally so details in OoF areas are softer which is what i'm after but other people may prefer more "busy" i.e. detailed bokeh. Compared to lenses discussed here, the 50/2.8 v2 is closer to 50/2 apo than 50/1.4 asph from this viewpoint.

 

5028_boke_01.jpg

 

Hi

My version is "the last".... which I thought was the only Elmar-M.... or I might be mistaking. Is this the one you refer to as v2 (the v1 only named Elmar without the -M or...)? And yes; I really prefer the softer bokeh as you do.

 

regards, Stein

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

Yes this very one. My favorite 50 ever but it's just me...  

 

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[jaapv]

Version 1 of the Elmar-M 50/2.8 collapsible is for the limited edition M-J, it has a "classical" chamfered barrel. Version2 is the general production one with the straight barrel.

Optically the two versions are identical.

All previous iterations of the 50/2.8 collapsible are called Elmar. Without the M.