The Leica M-D thread - merged.

[colonel]

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… lighter, thinner, less tall, more silent and with the addition of the rhythm of having to advance the frame

Also very nice is that my film M bodies don't have the thumb bump and wheel, making handling of the late digital M feel quite unnatural and bulky in comparison (which the M-D unfortunately shares).

Not sure my M7 feels lighter then my 262 or an M9

Same height

 

Could have sworn my MP was noisier then the M262 but I have sold it now

 

Definitely no film advance

 

I love the thumb bump

Edited May 10, 2016 by colonel

[jcraf]

What does a film camera feel like ?

 

Well, one thing that hasn't been discussed is that tactile, decisive, and conclusive action of winding the film on to the next frame. Moving on, if you like.

 

I think it's a very special feeling, especially on Leica M cameras. On my 1967 M4 in particular, it is a sublime moment between each shot.

Edited May 10, 2016 by jcraf

[ramarren]

Well, one thing that hasn't been discussed is that tactile, decisive, and conclusive action of winding the film on to the next frame. Moving on, if you like.

 

I think it's a very special feeling, especially on Leica M cameras. On my 1967 M4 in particular, it is a sublime moment between each shot.

 

 

The amusing thing about this is that with years of using motorized wind film cameras and digital cameras, whenever I pick up the M4-2 and go shooting it takes me several frames before I remember that I have to wind on to the next frame before I can take another photo. It feels so unnatural.... 

[likealot]

To each his own, but, here are some 'benefits' of a detachable screen:

 

-external phone to carry around; easy to drop and get lost/stolen

-a second battery to worry about

-requires lugging around a second charger

-negates the entire raison d'être of the M-D 

 

I find it rather remarkable within the Leica community (of which I also count myself part) that Leica has been producing some exceptional cameras and possibilities for us recently, yet nothing can ease the flow 'yes, it's great, but it should have had this or it should have had that."

 

In my view it is akin to admiring a new sportscar, and then complaining that it is only a two seater.

Sportscar in fantasy, sedan in heart 

 

Sir, I dont think you are much in touch with today's generations. Because if you were you would know that they:

 

never go out without their smartphone.

quite a lot carry spare batteries (called juice packs)

if people would be unwlling to carry around extra weight then the sales of those monstruous iPhone 6+ would not be as good as they are.

nowadays the juicepacks are quite tiny and they can charge an iPhone several times before they run out.

the iPhone chargers always get lugged around because god forbid, if those phones run out then life has ended.

 

What I find remarkable is that Leica has produced so many models of M recently and each of those models is either missing something or has useless features added on. Not to mention that each of thos emodels have some major flows. Hence why so many people always say " great but it could have....".

 

I find it remarkable that Leica is adopting the marketing tactics of the iPhone (i.e. bringing out a model and then drip feeding some features in the half way model) when they clearly are incapable of doing it properly.

 

I think the M-D could have been the perfect M if the option of an external screen connectivity would have been added. That way the camera itself has less buttons, less things to go wrong, less battery drainage, is more dust and moisture proof. Let's face it, when one spends £5k on a camera the esthetics are also important and considering how much people seem to be fascinated with vintage looks the M-D provides the perfect product for them.

 

The M-D without an external screen is neither...nor... . Whereas a screen connectivity would make it the best for all parties since it would satisfy many needs at once.

 

Since 2009 we have had 11 M models which in itself is minboggling. On top of that each of those models has had major flaws. And none of those models is just perfect (they are either stuffed with unneccesary features or dont have enough). And before people misunderstand, I am not a troll. I am simply a customer who would love to own and M and is frustrated by the mistakes that Leica are continuing to make. I dont mind paying £5k on a Leica M which meets all (or most of) my needs. However I do mind wasting my money in order to fund Leica's M experimentations.

 

PS: Making a cable to connect a smartphone and M and creating an app for that is not a huge costly task and yet it would open up so many opportunities for the M.

Edited May 10, 2016 by likealot

[pop]

.... However I do mind wasting my money in order to fund Leica's M experimentations. ....

However, if you do not waste your money in the meantime, you will be very wealthy by the time Leica manages to produce a camera you like.

[likealot]

However, if you do not waste your money in the meantime, you will be very wealthy by the time Leica manages to produce a camera you like.

 

Well, if things carry on at this rate I probably would have abandoned the idea of buying a Leica by then. (Any camera maker would have to give me a damn good reason in order for me to spend £5k on one of their cameras )

 

Or I may give in and choose either a M-P (240) or a M(262) and behappy with their limitations (until death do us part, as they say).

Edited May 10, 2016 by likealot

[Adam]

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An MD with external screen connectivity would be a great camera. Unfortunately, it is fairly obvious Leica has sometimes a hard time dealing with basic electronics and software. They would have to tighten their cooperation with Panasonic in developing such an M.

[Tailwagger]

I'm forced to almost always pick up the M-P by its strap because there's so little surface area to grasp it by otherwise. I don't generally like picking cameras up by their straps... they get banged into stuff that way. With the SL or the M4-2, I grasp the camera by its body when I pull it out of my bag. Both provide a nice, large surface that one can grip them by. 

 

Perhaps a cheaper solution is a grip.  Wrist strap + RRS on my camera. Never have any trouble getting out the bag or hitting buttons. Builds muscles too!

[Joshua Lowe]

Working the film advance lever on my M6 is one of my favorite things.  It feels great.

[Manoleica]

Working the film advance lever on my M6 is one of my favorite things.  It feels great.

+1

[ramarren]

Perhaps a cheaper solution is a grip.  Wrist strap + RRS on my camera. Never have any trouble getting out the bag or hitting buttons. Builds muscles too!

 

 

I have tried various grips and discarded. They all make the M feel bulky, heavy, and awkward to me; I buy an M because it is svelte and smallish. If I just wanted a grip, I'd take the SL, not the M-P. I just wish that the M-P had fewer buttons and delicate surfaces that I have to avoid when handling it. 

[menos I M6]

 

I think the M-D could have been the perfect M if the option of an external screen connectivity would have been added. That way the camera itself has less buttons, less things to go wrong, less battery drainage, is more dust and moisture proof. Let's face it, when one spends £5k on a camera the esthetics are also important and considering how much people seem to be fascinated with vintage looks the M-D provides the perfect product for them.

 

The M-D without an external screen is neither...nor... . Whereas a screen connectivity would make it the best for all parties since it would satisfy many needs at once.

 

Since 2009 we have had 11 M models which in itself is minboggling. On top of that each of those models has had major flaws. And none of those models is just perfect (they are either stuffed with unneccesary features or dont have enough). And before people misunderstand, I am not a troll. I am simply a customer who would love to own and M and is frustrated by the mistakes that Leica are continuing to make. I dont mind paying £5k on a Leica M which meets all (or most of) my needs. However I do mind wasting my money in order to fund Leica's M experimentations.

 

PS: Making a cable to connect a smartphone and M and creating an app for that is not a huge costly task and yet it would open up so many opportunities for the M.

I never tried it myself as I didn't see any usefulness in it for myself, but if I am not mistaken one can install a wifi card inside the M-D and has the possibility of image replay on a wifi capable gadget.

I could imagine this being useful when calibrating the rangefinder and speeding things up by tethering directly to a watched folder in Lightroom.

 

… and unfortunately making a cable connect and developing an app is indeed hugely expensive. Imagine the outcry when Leica would have done that and in effect had priced the M-D even higher than it is already.

We see armies of pitchfork wielding and screaming dull crowds already - can you imagine the public reaction - an intervention of a hurt-feeling mediterranean authoritarian perhaps with the help of our dear chancellor as of a too high price for a mass-production Leica without a screen?

 

Working the film advance lever on my M6 is one of my favorite things.  It feels great.

 

For years (since the M8 days) I have wished for a direction of digital M with just that - B&W sensor, no rear LCD, manual shutter cocking, digital Leicavit with added motor capabilities, PC-sync and extra battery capacity, brass and black paint and the size as close to a film M as possible, more affordable price.

We got a few steps into the right direction since then (the monstrosity, the M10 is aside) - lets wait another 5-10 years and we might actually get this perfect Leica M.

 

We have seen a few years of market preparation now - imagine the very same reactions of unimaginative people to the first Leica MM - it so very clearly reflects what has happened when Leica introduced the M60 and now being confirmed that Leica is more serious about this idea with the M-D.

Dull people will be silenced as more and more people "get it" or get bored outcrying as of a concept not within their grasp.

The next step after the M-D in a few years will come I am sure.

 

One can still buy fine mechanical watches, fountain pens, paper notebooks and shoes with shoestring - even car manufacturers are still offering select cars with manual transmissions. There will always be a market for simple and finely made tools/ objects / luxury items, call it what you will - main focus of these products being superior quality and a simplicity to their operation.

 

Maybe we see Leica offering at some point even a fixed lens, screen less medium format digital travel folder camera with B&W sensor - a digital Makina 67 if you will?

Edited May 11, 2016 by menos I M6

[BerndReini]

 

 

Maybe we see Leica offering at some point even a fixed lens, screen less medium format digital travel folder camera with B&W sensor - a digital Makina 67 if you will?

Until that day, a lot of fun can be had (and incredibly high quality pictures rivaling the Makina and film be taken) with an MM and 50Apo or 35cron, or whichever lens you may desire from the current lineup.

[jaapv]

"Even car manufacturers are offering select cars with manual transmissions" LOL. Sir, you are showing your provenance.   To a considerable part of the world, automatic transmissions are a minority of car sales and an expensive accessory.

[IkarusJohn]

I dont want to get back into this discussion but I have to ask.

 

Many of you MD M60 lovers, expressed early on in this thread, that the love for this cameras is only the simple way of working.... and has nothing to do with it feeling like a film camera.

 

Is  this still true, that the love has nothing to do with it feeling like a film camera?

 

For me, yes.

 

It is about just having direct control over ISO, aperture, shutter speed and focus.  That is entirely consistent with a mechanical rangefinder using manual focus lenses in the 28-90mm focal length range.

 

Nothing to do with film. 

[menos I M6]

"Even car manufacturers are offering select cars with manual transmissions" LOL. Sir, you are showing your provenance.   To a considerable part of the world, automatic transmissions are a minority of car sales and an expensive accessory.

 

Jaap, you always have to run a sharply calibrated irony-meter with my posts ;-)

[sumolux]

Sir, I dont think you are much in touch with today's generations. Because if you were you would know that they:

 

never go out without their smartphone.

quite a lot carry spare batteries (called juice packs)

if people would be unwlling to carry around extra weight then the sales of those monstruous iPhone 6+ would not be as good as they are.

nowadays the juicepacks are quite tiny and they can charge an iPhone several times before they run out.

the iPhone chargers always get lugged around because god forbid, if those phones run out then life has ended.

 

With a phone in my hand I am as typical as anyone else whose life is governed by an iPhone   !

I simply find making really good pictures diffcult enough-

without walking around Hong Kong with an iphone in one hand and the camera in the other, ducking into sidestreets to be able to turn on the App or connect the cable without getting bumped into, only to see if everything is OK on such a useful portable screen..

Not to mention distracting emails, notifications, calls or whatever.

Mobile is the first thing left behind when I photograph.

 

For me the M-D's charm is exactly the way it forces one to concentrate on one thing.

Perhaps I am just too weak of will and too easily distracted and therefore prefer limited hardware options 

[Peter H]

If ever I were to waver in my personal conviction that the M-D is not for me, Menos | M6 likening it to a mechanical watch or fountain pen will get me back on course.

[jaapv]

Jaap, you always have to run a sharply calibrated irony-meter with my posts ;-)

I did, and it pointed West, between Atlantic and Pacific

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[AAK]

What does a film camera feel like ?

 

A film camera appeals to most of the senses:

sight - all the Leica film cameras are beautiful works of engineering and design and lovely to look at, or the image in the viewfinder that you immortalize;

sound - the click of the shutter, the quiet, smooth movement of the gears turning inside the camera as a fresh piece of film is advanced precisely into the frame; 

touch - the smooth advance of the film lever; the perfect placement of the controls; the act of loading the film;

smell - the scent of a fresh roll of film as it comes out of its package inviting you to load it into the chamber;

taste - the coffee you savor as you anticipate and plan your next shots, or the wine you sip as your review your photographs.

Edited May 11, 2016 by AAK