The Leica M-D thread - merged.

[colonel]

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I see the temptation. But it is easily countered; I simply take out one of my film Ms.

That is something I thought originally but no longer

 

The M-D gives you the film experience until you get home and can see the photos instantly. Change ISO picture to picture and have a less noisy image. No cost of processing, no worrying about the negs being damaged or mis processed. Etc.

 

So it sits in between. Neither one nor the other, but the best of both worlds or the worst of both worlds, depending on taste

Edited May 10, 2016 by colonel

[jaapv]

Hmmm.. I think the clue is in the words "film experience" I cannot really relate that to the presence of a screen.

A film experience to me is that I end up with a strip of negatives in my hands, no matter by what tools.

 

The style of photography you refer to is a mindset to me. For instance, Sunday I happened on a gathering of WW II vehicles. Very nice, I wandered around for half an hour with my M9. I took five photographs, four were more or less keepers, and I was not even aware that my camera had a screen and buttons. There was nothing the M-D would have added.

Now maybe if I were the type of photographer that would have taken 500 photographs, checking exposure, sharpness, what have you in between, I might have needed a screen-less camera.

[wattsy]

The M-D gives you the film experience until....

I'm not sure I buy into this "film experience" lark unless it is just shorthand for "photographing without recourse to instant review". I would have thought most people who are using film do so because they prefer the end result (or that they might prefer the tangible neg or slide that they obtain) rather than using film for the "experience"? I do prefer using my film cameras (I will even admit to liking the unconscious routine of winding the film on after each shot) but that preference would be a ludicrous reason for me to use film if I didn't like/prefer the results I obtain using film. (Incidentally, I've never personally considered not having the ability to review a photo as an advantage of using film - it's just something that goes with the territory.)

 

 

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Edited May 10, 2016 by wattsy

[menos I M6]

I think that this is not the way some members see it.

 

They see a camera with a vastly reduced user interface and many options removed that are not useful enough. The benefit is, of course, simpler handling of the camera. The added benefit is that you won't alter some settings by mistake. You won't forget to return a rarely used setting to its normal value for the next outing.

 

The absence of a screen may be of little importance for those photographers because they use the screen but rarely for checking their photographs, and it's no longer needed for operating the camera. Gone is the scratchable surface. Gone are the zillions buttons you press even when holding the camera. Gone are several openings in the case where moisture can enter.

 

The funny thing happened to me on a recent day out - due to some unrepeatable process I must have reset my MM2 while out and taking photographs.

I carry one camera mostly on one shoulder while using another and that must have been the occasion when the MM2 had reset itself by sheer alignment of the moon and the stars.

 

Luckily I was wondering why on earth the camera would show me the last taken image on the display each time I took an image (factory setting is image review on) - that's how I caught the issue.

This will not be happening with a screen less M.

 

I was always wondering why Leica since the issues of self adjusting M8 bodies has not introduced the feature, pro-grade Nikon digital's have for generations - you can button lock the camera (hold the lock button, spin either aperture or speed dial and buttons are locked)!

This would lock the useless buttons on the camera and only allow for photography related function buttons to work while you are not rummaging inside menus or chimping, … and would prevent accidental resetting camera functions in the heat of the moment when a camera is bumping around.

Implementations would be very simple by the gazillion of external buttons the standard digital M has grown over the years ;-)

[edwardkaraa]

I think the M-D is not about film experience, but rather about pure minimalistic experience.

[wattsy]

I think the M-D is not about film experience, but rather about pure minimalistic experience.

Yes, or it is not about the "experience" at all. I quite like the product but only because it streamlines the camera, removing 'unnecessary' (for me) buttons and other interruptions to the basic shape of the camera.

 

 

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[menos I M6]

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That is something I thought originally but no longer

 

The M-D gives you the film experience until you get home and can see the photos instantly. Change ISO picture to picture and have a less noisy image. No cost of processing, no worrying about the negs being damaged or mis processed. Etc.

 

So it sits in between. Neither one nor the other, but the best of both worlds or the worst of both worlds, depending on taste

 

To me this whole film experience argument is a mystery too.

 

Removing distractions and unnecessary clutter from a piece of gear doesn't morph it into another experience.

It simply removes distractions and unnecessary clutter from a piece of gear.

 

When looking at facts about this whole film experience argument, one will see that one or the other is a wash.

Digital images does cost processing - that Eizo monitor and Mac Pro isn't paying for itself.

Negs can get damaged or lost, so do digital files on cards and drives. I invest a big amount of time and effort just for the part of the backup strategy to check for data integrity and yes, files do break.

Edited May 10, 2016 by menos I M6

[edwardkaraa]

Yes, or it is not about the "experience" at all. I quite like the product but only because it streamlines the camera, removing 'unnecessary' (for me) buttons and other interruptions to the basic shape of the camera.

 

 

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That's exactly why I like it, a lot!

[jaapv]

I think the M-D is not about film experience, but rather about pure minimalistic experience.

I am not really into this whole experience thing - A camera is a tool, If a photographer likes a specific tool better he will be happier using it. No more, no less.

[colonel]

The M-D is beautiful, unique and simply to use. It should be enjoyed for what it is. I do find parts of its process similar to the film process but it seems this is a sensitive subject.

 

If the results are the main thing then it's nothing like film. If the main thing is holding the negatives in your hand then it's also nothing like film.

 

I think the M240, M-P, M262, M-D, M7 and MP give enough choice for M shooters.

Edited May 10, 2016 by colonel

[edwardkaraa]

I am not really into this whole experience thing - A camera is a tool, If a photographer likes a specific tool better he will be happier using it. No more, no less.

 

Absolutely. I personally feel that a camera like the M-D with only the 4 essentials is very attractive. I love the idea but understand others may hate it. It's just the way it is.

[-Lss-]

Now maybe if I were the type of photographer that would have taken 500 photographs, checking exposure, sharpness, what have you in between, I might have needed a screen-less camera.

For that you need a camera with a screen, or a Wi-Fi-enabled SD card. 

[jaapv]

....to restrain myself from such behaviour.....

[honcho]

Heya John, 

Winnie is straight, but why is Big Ben tilted? '-)

Good case for chimping....

[Peter H]

From reading the last few posts I've discovered that normal digital Leicas have somewhere between "zillions" and " gazillions" of buttons on the back.

 

If I'd have realised this I would have understood it all so much better.

 

As an aside, as a nine or ten year old, one of the things that absolutely fascinated me about a Rolleicord was the bewildering number of knobs and buttons scattered all over it. I suppose a non D version of a digital M Leica is the camera most likely to give me that film experience.

[edwardkaraa]

From reading the last few posts I've discovered that normal digital Leicas have somewhere between "zillions" and " gazillions" of buttons on the back.

 

If I'd have realised this I would have understood it all so much better.

 

As an aside, as a nine or ten year old, one of the things that absolutely fascinated me about a Rolleicord was the bewildering number of knobs and buttons scattered all over it. I suppose a non D version of a digital M Leica is the camera most likely to give me that film experience.

9 vs 2 is a substantial reduction

[sumolux]

I'll list some benefits of it:

 

external screen means one less thing to break or go wrong.

less drain on battery life

gives people a choice of when they want to preview or not

 

To each his own, but, here are some 'benefits' of a detachable screen:

 

-external phone to carry around; easy to drop and get lost/stolen

-a second battery to worry about

-requires lugging around a second charger

-negates the entire raison d'être of the M-D 

 

I find it rather remarkable within the Leica community (of which I also count myself part) that Leica has been producing some exceptional cameras and possibilities for us recently, yet nothing can ease the flow 'yes, it's great, but it should have had this or it should have had that."

 

In my view it is akin to admiring a new sportscar, and then complaining that it is only a two seater.

Sportscar in fantasy, sedan in heart 

Edited May 10, 2016 by sumolux

[ramarren]

The joy of controversy, that's what the M-D is all about. 

 

To my eyes, it's beautiful.

To what I want in a Leica M, it's a perfect match.

Listening to my photographer's heart, I want one. 

 

Simple as that. 

[Peter H]

The joy of controversy, that's what the M-D is all about. 

 

To my eyes, it's beautiful.

To what I want in a Leica M, it's a perfect match.

Listening to my photographer's heart, I want one. 

 

Simple as that. 

 

My photographer's heart tells me to buy a TLR and rebuild my darkroom. 

 

It appears that my brain and my heart aren't on speaking terms.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ramarren]

My photographer's heart tells me to buy a TLR and rebuild my darkroom. 

 

It appears that my brain and my heart aren't on speaking terms.

 

 

LOL! 

 

I'd love another Rolleiflex TLR, but I'm not going that way again. 

 

I did just order a new film camera, however. The Impossible Project I-1 ... an instant film camera with an iPhone app. Full manual control of focus and exposure with the iPhone, autofocus/autoexposure with the camera. It looks like it will be a lot of fun. And 1/20 the cost of an M-D.