AF settings advice for Dynamic Tracking

[jonoslack]

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ahh...that's the secret.

 

Hmm yes - seems to be a secret . . . I had to be told by the Leica PM . . works with the T too.

[忘不了]

Tracking focus on the SL above does not come is the decoration。

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[CiraCrowell]

MF on the 24-90 is I feel "work in progress". It seems laggy, vague and inaccurate to me, with quite a lot of backwards and forwards tweaking before you are sure you have focus correct. Compared with using a mechanically focussed lens R or M lens on either the SL or an M, it feels distinctly second rate. After three weeks using the SL for a few hours a day, leaving the focus AF area setting to "Field", I found the joystick became totally second nature to select the focus point. I found this much quicker than having to take a hand off to use the touch screen. The touch screen is excellent when you are using a tripod but less so when hand held. Somewhat to my surprise, I have found I am close to as quick focusing an M lens on the SL, as I would be on a rangefinder and that is after 50+ years of practice on a rangefinder. In low light, I now prefer focusing my Noctilux on the SL to an M because you get a preview of depth of focus. 

 

Wilson

Totally agree re: "work in progress." I appreciate hearing your M style approach to focusing the SLs and will give it a try.  Great to hear you feel it is second nature now. Thanks Wilson!  

 

yes . . if I undersand you right - half press the shutter, and then whilst keeping it half pressed focus with the focus ring.

Works for me

 

Brilliant! Your tip totally changed how I feel about this lens - now that I'm no longer stuck in AF "or" MF.  Will now be using: AFc with half-shutter pressed for MF when I can then joystick on 1 Point Field if I must.  Also, with the AF Steps Not Visible the viewfinder looks more like an M than a video game, so it is easier to focus on focusing.    Thank you Jono!

[ramarren]

I don't understand Wilson's comment that MF with the SL24-90 seems a work in progress. It seems to work just as well as manually focusing R and M lenses to me, with the added option that I can tell the SL to auto-enable peaking while focusing. The biggest obstacle is just getting used to tha large diameter of the lens. 

 

I find the AF steps very distracting so turned them off as soon as I got the SL. 

 

The half press MF was something posted about in the first week I had the SL. I find it a little clumsy in use, I'm much more likely to set MF and have on-demand AF on the toggle button. A customizable AF/MF toggle button would be even handier.  

[wlaidlaw]

I don't understand Wilson's comment that MF with the SL24-90 seems a work in progress. It seems to work just as well as manually focusing R and M lenses to me, with the added option that I can tell the SL to auto-enable peaking while focusing. The biggest obstacle is just getting used to tha large diameter of the lens. 

 

 

Don't you find there is noticeable lag from turning the focus ring to the focus changing? I find this and as a result, I overshoot the correct focus point, then turn back and overshoot slightly again so have to reverse direction a second time. It is the manual focus version of an AF lens hunting for focus. Also the amount you move the focus ring does not seem proportional to the amount focus changes. It is not just Leica. I find exactly the same on trying to manual focus the Olympus lenses on my EP-5. 

Edited April 9, 2016 by wlaidlaw

[steppenw0lf]

Don't you find there is noticeable lag from turning the focus ring to the focus changing? I find this and as a result, I overshoot the correct focus point, then turn back and overshoot slightly again so have to reverse direction a second time. It is the manual focus version of an AF lens hunting for focus. Also the amount you move the focus ring does not seem proportional to the amount focus changes. It is not just Leica. I find exactly the same on trying to manual focus the Olympus lenses on my EP-5. 

 

 

Wilson,

 

I had the same problem with the EF 1.7/50mm on the Canon 5Ds in manual focus mode. That's why I am so happy with the Summicron 50mm on the SL. Just plain precision, no overshooting. That's also nice with my "new" Contax 28-85 . (the direct steering)

Somehow I enjoy this manual focusing much more than working with AF. Typical AF scenario: I hear or see anything outside the frame, I am curious and lose concentration for a few seconds, the AF drifts off, and I have to refocus again. What nuisance !

 

Stephan

Edited April 9, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[LocalHero1953]

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Don't you find there is noticeable lag from turning the focus ring to the focus changing? I find this and as a result, I overshoot the correct focus point, then turn back and overshoot slightly again so have to reverse direction a second time. It is the manual focus version of an AF lens hunting for focus. Also the amount you move the focus ring does not seem proportional to the amount focus changes. It is not just Leica. I find exactly the same on trying to manual focus the Olympus lenses on my EP-5. 

I don't see a lag.

I do value the rate-sensitive focusing: turn fast and you jump big focus distances; turn slow and you get fine tuning. It took me a while to realise this was going on, and occasionally I still turn the ring too enthusiastically and overshoot. This is obviously a different approach to a direct mechanical ring, but I'm getting used to it.

[ramarren]

Don't you find there is noticeable lag from turning the focus ring to the focus changing? I find this and as a result, I overshoot the correct focus point, then turn back and overshoot slightly again so have to reverse direction a second time. It is the manual focus version of an AF lens hunting for focus. Also the amount you move the focus ring does not seem proportional to the amount focus changes. It is not just Leica. I find exactly the same on trying to manual focus the Olympus lenses on my EP-5. 

 

 

I don't see any lag.

 

The focusing speed is variable rate ... the slower you turn the ring, the slower and more precisely the focus changes. When using MF, I have the toggle button set to do AF on demand, which jumps the lens very quickly to the correct approximate point, and then slowly turn the focusing ring to obtain precise critical focus. 

 

Once you get used to the variable rate focusing speed, the focusing is extremely precise. All of my FourThirds and Micro-FourThirds system cameras and lenses have this same focusing behavior so I'm very very familiar with it. It's quite different from a manual helicoid focusing ring, I agree, but it's even more responsive and precise when you learn to use it. 

Edited April 10, 2016 by ramarren

[Peter Walker]

Don't you find there is noticeable lag from turning the focus ring to the focus changing? I find this and as a result, I overshoot the correct focus point, then turn back and overshoot slightly again so have to reverse direction a second time. It is the manual focus version of an AF lens hunting for focus. Also the amount you move the focus ring does not seem proportional to the amount focus changes. It is not just Leica. I find exactly the same on trying to manual focus the Olympus lenses on my EP-5.

Probably just a question of time and usage before your muscle memory adapts to the new style of MF with fly-by-wire focus rings.

[Guest]

I've found tracking to be fairly useless on all the mirrorless cameras I've used (Olympus, Sony, Leica). But the saving grace is very accurate and fast point focusing. I've found it better to have single point focusing, follow the target and mash the shutter at the critical point. Nails it most of the time. 

 

Agreed this is what I do too. Panning I believe the expression is called when taking photos of fast moving horizontal things. That's the technique I use with cars. Hit and miss, but with practice the misses become less!

Edited April 10, 2016 by Guest

[jonoslack]

Today I was shooting a Pyrenean sheepdog show, so:

Some of the dogs were nearly white

Some of the dogs were black

they were often running fast towards the camera

the sunlight came and went

 

I put the SL into AFs (point) and spot metering (which follows the focus point). 

These dogs move fast - tracking really didn't cut it at all - especially as the best time to shoot is when they're coming towards the camera. To be honest I don't think it would with any camera.

 

Out of 800 shots, I have lots of rubbish . . . . but only about 20 which need to be deleted for technical reasons. The single shot AF is really fast, so that I simply pressed the shutter when I wanted to take an image.

 

Basically the camera nailed both exposure and focus on the dogs, and the joystick makes moving the focus point a real snap.

[LocalHero1953]

Hi Jono - any reason you didn't use AFc? In theory, the way you used it (without tracking, but panning to keep the focus point on the dog), it might have made it even quicker to get focus. Was it that you just didn't need it, or is there a downside to AFc?

[fsprow]

As Jono said, all the mirrorless cameras I have used, including the SL with 24/90, are far inferior to the current SLR's in following fast action. Maybe can be improved with software, maybe not.

[Joshua Lowe]

Which of the SL's focusing modes is the closest to Canon's AI Servo?

 

I'd like to shoot action stuff again, racing and skateboarding.  Single point focus, typically the center or slightly off center.  Ideally, I'd like to be able to assign focus tracking on/off to a separate button than the shutter, but I'm not sure if the SL's button layout will work for that.  

[CiraCrowell]

When using Manual Focus Override in AFc mode is there a way to select Focus Magnification?  When pressed, the joystick seems to be reserved for moving the point and does nothing, instead of enabling Focus Mag.

[wlaidlaw]

I found the problem with AFc and fast moving objects was that it would take the photo even if the camera was not focused, so I stick with what Jono uses: Point AFs and spot exposure. I also have AE lock only as a quick press on the front function button, so that I can lock exposure prior to focus. This is very useful in wide range lighted areas, remembering that there is far more headspace and recoverable information in the dark areas than in over-exposed. 

 

I don't think the SL with its CDAF from the main sensor is ever going to be as fast as an SLR using a separate PDAF detector but FW refinements on my Olympus EP-5 and separate FW updates for the lenses have improved the AF quite a lot (particularly the 75-300 Mk.2), so there is hope for the SL. I hope Leica are not too proud to go and ask for help from Panasonic, whose CDAF on their mirrorless cameras is good. 

 

Wilson

[jonoslack]

Hi Jono - any reason you didn't use AFc? In theory, the way you used it (without tracking, but panning to keep the focus point on the dog), it might have made it even quicker to get focus. Was it that you just didn't need it, or is there a downside to AFc?

 

Hi Paul

Well, basically because (as Wilson says) it takes the shot anyway in AFC (as I understand it), whether you've achieved focus or not, whereas AFs achieves focus first (there was never any perceptible lag).

Worth mentioning that I used T mode with the shutter set at 1/400th (they're quick those dogs!). 

Face detection is no good (you want the dog, not the handler). 

 

The photos are pretty boring, but it's actually a really good test of any camera - I've had some disastrous results previously, but these were excellent. 

[jonoslack]

As Jono said, all the mirrorless cameras I have used, including the SL with 24/90, are far inferior to the current SLR's in following fast action. Maybe can be improved with software, maybe not.

That's not quite what I said - I said that the tracking was not so good - but it's made up for by much faster single shot AF - which might even be better in some circumstances. I never managed to get an SLR to focus properly on a dog running towards the camera (for instance) - but this worked really well with the SL. It's just a different technique.

 

I had a lot of success shooting surfers on the E-M1 with the 75-300 (600mm equivalent) hand held, using the same technique, ie single shot and mashing the shutter at the critical moment. 

[jonoslack]

Which of the SL's focusing modes is the closest to Canon's AI Servo?

 

I'd like to shoot action stuff again, racing and skateboarding.  Single point focus, typically the center or slightly off center.  Ideally, I'd like to be able to assign focus tracking on/off to a separate button than the shutter, but I'm not sure if the SL's button layout will work for that.  

Hi Joshua

Tracking is closest, but it will almost certainly disappoint if you're used to Canon.

But as i've described works well - no skateboarders around here, but I think they're easier than running dogs, and it does work with surfers as well. . . I think it's a case of playing to the strength of the camera as opposed to it's weaknesses . . . .

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[JeffWright]

When using Manual Focus Override in AFc mode is there a way to select Focus Magnification?  When pressed, the joystick seems to be reserved for moving the point and does nothing, instead of enabling Focus Mag.

 

 

As best I can tell, focus mag doesn't seem to be available in AFc mode, no matter how it's configured. You can mag before you start focusing, but once you start focusing in AFc, the magnification turns off. In AFs mode, magnification stays active. I guess that's a 'feature' as opposed to a bug. And as opposed to the use of M and R lenses, where pressing the joystick turns on magnification, you have to use the BL button to use focus mag with the SL lenses. I've personally settled on leaving the camera in manual focus mode, but have the joystick configured to start AFs or AFc (without AE-L). I then just swap profiles to switch between AFs and AFc. PS, Cira, you have a PM.