Leica Film Odyssey for a beginner

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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As this is a not about film cameras any more but a film Odyssey, I have moved the thread and adjusted the title.

Jaapv it seems like there are still two threads now...........

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[gbealnz]

Good looking cart Neil.

I'd be thinking to forget the Delta 3200 to be honest, but then again.................

Certainly the Delta 100 etc.

And I did a way cheaper light panel in HK, but it did take some finding.

Gary

[Doc Henry]

I agree with Jeff, by then 8x10 might be beckoning Neil, LOL. Sorry, but I can almost see it now "8x10 Camera for beginner" thread. Anyway, you seem to have broad shoulders and the fun this thread has generated is priceless, bordering on legendary.

 

I'd say if you are still "into" film at that stage, yes, take the M6, and a few lenses, 28/35/50/75, whatever. I'd certainly advocate a digital as well, the Q being the obvious choice, but given a handful of M lenses for the M6, why not an M9/M240 or similar?

 

Last trips to Europe I took the M6 and a couple of lenses, plus B&W film, as well as the X1 or X-Vario for "snapshots" and for colour.

 

Consider the airport effect on film, I worried about it, but this was unfounded, but by then things might have ramped up a bit, who knows. At least you can buy film in the UK, so maybe take minimal and buy local.

Gary

Gary, I often go for med. humanitarian mission in South East Asia and often have 

fifty or more film rolls  in my luggage in the cabin or aircraft hold : not developed

as I developed myself  color as b&w , safer ! and I put them by precaution in

anti-radiation protective bags as you see in the picture below .

No problem for me. Absolute security

 

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Leica M8 - MacroElmar 90

 

Interesting Neil's thread

 

Best regards

Henry

For your information and for comparison I bought all my film rolls here

http://www.photostock.fr/films-couleur,fr,8,26.cfm

sometimes here :

http://www.caddyphoto.com/index.php?cPath=66_67_70

https://www.macodirect.de/en/film/black-und-white-films/?p=4

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Good looking cart Neil.

I'd be thinking to forget the Delta 3200 to be honest, but then again.................

Certainly the Delta 100 etc.

And I did a way cheaper light panel in HK, but it did take some finding.

Gary

Gary B&H have cheaper ones but I really don't have a clue about them so I went for a middle of the road model with some good reviews.

The ISO3200 is just for trial and error, I will try a few rolls and see what they are like at night ( I like to shoot people at night in cafe's and bars)

[rpavich]

The ISO3200 is just for trial and error, I will try a few rolls and see what they are like at night ( I like to shoot people at night in cafe's and bars)

I think you'd be amazed at how much you can do with just 400 speed film. With digital, it seems like you really have the jack the ISO up to get decent night shots but I've found that with film, (assuming the subjects aren't doing a lot of fast moving)even shooting AT 400 works in really low light.

I think digital sort of "skews" our perception of what's possible with medium speed ISO's.

 

If it were me, I'd lose the 3200, use 400 and shoot it a roll at 800 or 1600 if necessary. Then when you get your film developed, just tell them how many stops were pushed ( 1 stop = 800, 2 stops = 1600)

 

That's my thoughts anyway.

 

And don't forget to change your expectations; film isn't about razor sharp pixel peeping "how sharp is this lens?" sort of thing. Just take a look at Doc Henry's very long picture posting thread and you'll see very pleasing shots done in low light with blurring, not-quite-in-focus stuff and any number of other things...but they are beautiful images.

[@McLeica]

Raper

That's a given, the Q is great for a grab shot here and there and also nice for discreet under the table shot...............not that I take many of them.

 

May have to change my nickname with that shortening of it. 

[david strachan]

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Goodonya Neil.

 

Must admit I love the feel of the M6 too.  And the whole film thing too...to a point.

I admire your tenacity.

 

cheers  Dave S

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

If it were me, I'd lose the 3200, use 400 and shoot it a roll at 800 or 1600 if necessary. Then when you get your film developed, just tell them how many stops were pushed ( 1 stop = 800, 2 stops = 1600)

Vich,

I still cant get my head wrapped around this. What happens when you shoot the first 10 frames at box ISO (say 400) then you shoot the next 10 frames at ISO 1600 and the remainder of the roll at ISO 800...............what do I tell Bang Bang Gang to do and be able to tell him with a straight face :)

Seriously is there a way to do the above or do you just pick a number in the middle and go with that?

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Goodonya Neil.

 

Must admit I love the feel of the M6 too.  And the whole film thing too...to a point.

I admire your tenacity.

 

cheers  Dave S

Dave I had to google that one  "tenacity" just incase you were taking the piss :)

Not that anyone on here would do that

[gbealnz]

Vich,

I still cant get my head wrapped around this. What happens when you shoot the first 10 frames at box ISO (say 400) then you shoot the next 10 frames at ISO 1600 and the remainder of the roll at ISO 800...............what do I tell Bang Bang Gang to do and be able to tell him with a straight face :)

Seriously is there a way to do the above or do you just pick a number in the middle and go with that?

 

That's where it gets tricky Neil, you can't really. While I'm not 100% sure I recall that XP1 used to allow you to do this. But I still believe it was a comprise.

 

Another option is to use shorter films, 24 exposure etc. I often load 20-24 shot rolls from bulk. A bonus for you if you do this is you'll become a whizz at loading the M6.

Gary

[EoinC]

 

If it were me, I'd lose the 3200, use 400 and shoot it a roll at 800 or 1600 if necessary. Then when you get your film developed, just tell them how many stops were pushed ( 1 stop = 800, 2 stops = 1600)

 

Vich,

I still cant get my head wrapped around this. What happens when you shoot the first 10 frames at box ISO (say 400) then you shoot the next 10 frames at ISO 1600 and the remainder of the roll at ISO 800...............what do I tell Bang Bang Gang to do and be able to tell him with a straight face :)

Seriously is there a way to do the above or do you just pick a number in the middle and go with that?

 

Easiest way is to shoot a film at a time, Neil. Bring some of the digital machine gun shooting back into play, and finish the film that's in there. Then load another film for heading out at night, and shoot it pushed. There is a lot of latitude in film, so you can get away with a fair bit of underexposure before it will crash and burn (use that steady hand to still keep shooting at slow shutter speeds). As others have said earlier, it is possible to wind films back in, swap them out, and wind them back out later when you want to resume with that film speed or stock, but I'd say it's far easier to just finish what you have on your plate at this stage. If you waste a few frames, who cares?

[EoinC]

Jaapv it seems like there are still two threads now...........

No, the other thread just redirects across here.

[rpavich]

If it were me, I'd lose the 3200, use 400 and shoot it a roll at 800 or 1600 if necessary. Then when you get your film developed, just tell them how many stops were pushed ( 1 stop = 800, 2 stops = 1600)

 

Vich,

I still cant get my head wrapped around this. What happens when you shoot the first 10 frames at box ISO (say 400) then you shoot the next 10 frames at ISO 1600 and the remainder of the roll at ISO 800...............what do I tell Bang Bang Gang to do and be able to tell him with a straight face :)

Seriously is there a way to do the above or do you just pick a number in the middle and go with that?

No, you shoot a roll at whatever speed you choose..the whole thing.

 

You can shoot at 800 even in normal light conditions so it's not like you have to switch or something. ISO 800 is middle-of-the-road enough to shoot during the day and also at night.

 

You can (if you choose) shoot a partial roll at a certain ISO and then roll it back into the cassette as if it were finished and then write on the canister which shot you were on so that you can go back to it later but to me, I'd rather just waste a few shots when moving to a new ISO. After all, you've spent TONS of money on other things...what's a $5.00 partial roll of film in the scheme of things?

 

 

I hope that's more clear.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Goodonya Neil.

 

Must admit I love the feel of the M6 too.  And the whole film thing too...to a point.

I admire your tenacity.

 

cheers  Dave S

Dave

When I traded in all my M gear for the S; that was a major f%$k up on my behalf. I got all bent out of shape over the frigging focus patch in the rangefinder when in reality all I needed to do was get somebody to show me how to use a diopter (Raymond has taken car of that bitty now) so I now have no issues nailing focus with a rangefinder. I was lured into thinking that the Leica S was going to make my pictures better, when as we all know, its got f$#k all to do with the equipment its got everything to do with who is taking the picture, has he got an eye for a picture, can he see the light and all that lovely stuff.

 

About a week after getting rid on my M gear I was missing it, even though I w2as telling all the none believers that I had made the right decision. The S didn't make me a better photographer and dint make better pictures, what it did was make me realize that taking pictures for fun or a hobby what really matters is using something that feels good............how many people have hobbies that pisses them off every time they go out to participate in there hobby...............not for to long, I bet.

 

The S is a chore to walk about town with (I wish some of my buddies on here had told me that up front) The M6 and the rest of the M series is like sex, once you've tried it you want more, and when you cant get it you start looking for a compromise. What the S is good for is taking amazing pictures (with somebody that know WTF they are doing) in a studio environment and landscape..........it doesn't compare to the mobility of the M series, and although it does feel good in the hand it doesn't feel frigging awesome like the M.  

So I hope this has answered your question about the M6 and tenacity

Neil

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

 A bonus for you if you do this is you'll become a whizz at loading the M6.

Gary

I'am now......I think?

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

, but I'd say it's far easier to just finish what you have on your plate at this stage. If you waste a few frames, who cares?

Eoin your right, Oil hit $41 last week, I can easily find ways to burn a few frames

[Guest]

...I still cant get my head wrapped around this. What happens when you shoot the first 10 frames at box ISO (say 400) then you shoot the next 10 frames at ISO 1600 and the remainder of the roll at ISO 800...............what do I tell Bang Bang Gang to do and be able to tell him with a straight face

Seriously is there a way to do the above or do you just pick a number in the middle and go with that?

 

 

 

Yes, there is: you can use "stand developing." I learned about this from a small lab in Chiang Mai, owned by two young women in their twenties who came to love film photography at university. Stand developing is often done in a 1:100 dilution of Rodinal developer for 1 hour with gentle inversion of the tank after 30minutes. The temperature is not critical. It seems almost never to blow out even the brightest highlights — no "great blobs of fire" (to paraphrase the song) that I fight all the time with the MM — and sometimes gives a "halo" or "iridescent" effect, which still have details if you burn the highlights in in processing. Individual frames on a roll can be shoot at any ISO that you want. You can find some interesting examples of this if you do a web search on "stand development" and "stand developing."

 

Here a few shots from a roll using stand developing, in which I rated individual shots at ISO 400 and 1600. The first one is in the most awful, flat, fluorescent shopping mall light that you can imagine:

 

 

ISO 1600 with stand development

Chiang Mai

 

 

 

ISO 1600 with stand development

Chiang Mai

 

 

 

ISO 400 with stand development

Chiang Mai

 

 

 

ISO 400 with stand development

Chiang Mai

 

 

 

ISO 400 with stand development

Chiang Mai 

[MarkP]

I think you'd be amazed at how much you can do with just 400 speed film. With digital, it seems like you really have the jack the ISO up to get decent night shots but I've found that with film, (assuming the subjects aren't doing a lot of fast moving)even shooting AT 400 works in really low light.

I think digital sort of "skews" our perception of what's possible with medium speed ISO's.

 

If it were me, I'd lose the 3200, use 400 and shoot it a roll at 800 or 1600 if necessary. Then when you get your film developed, just tell them how many stops were pushed ( 1 stop = 800, 2 stops = 1600)

 

That's my thoughts anyway.

 

And don't forget to change your expectations; film isn't about razor sharp pixel peeping "how sharp is this lens?" sort of thing. Just take a look at Doc Henry's very long picture posting thread and you'll see very pleasing shots done in low light with blurring, not-quite-in-focus stuff and any number of other things...but they are beautiful images.

 

 

I agree with this for ISO 400 film - unless it's really dark I often just shoot at f1.4-2.0 with shutter speed at reciprocal of lens length (or 1/2 thereof for wider lenses) and it seems to work out OK.

 

Mark's "Dark f2 Rule" instead of the "Sunny 16 Rule".  It seems to enhance the drama of low light and film just picking up the lit areas of the image.

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[rpavich]

Mark's "Dark f2 Rule" instead of the "Sunny 16 Rule".  It seems to enhance the drama of low light and film just picking up the lit areas of the image.

Can you elaborate on what Mark's Dark F/2 rule is?

[IkarusJohn]

I'm guessing it might be ISO 400, shoot at 1/400 (okay, maybe 1/250) at f/2 if it's ... dark?