Considering system change from Canon to Leica. Need help :)

[Martin Fagerås]

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Hello. 

 

I'm considering dumping my 5D Mark III with a few L lenses these days. I checked Lightroom and found out that i actually haven't used it at all in almost one year, Mostly because of weight. 

 

Long story short.  about two years ago i bought a Fuji X100T, then a X-T1 a few months later. I loved the size / weight, but i never got comfortable with the image quality. 

 

Just before christmas i sold all my fuji gear and bought the Leica Q, and I'm head over heels in love..... everything works for me with this camera including the focal length.

 

To be honest, the Q probably work for 80% of what i shoot, but i do like the occasional compressed portrait, and when i travel i do miss 50'ish FL every now and then, but i have not travelled with my 5D3 for almost two years now. I have to face it, it collects dust. 

 

I also like astrophotography, and have been on a couple of african safari's. two scenarios i know a Leica M is not really the optimal tool for. 

 

I'm not really sure Rangefinders are for me either, so my local dealer is lending me a M240 + Summicron 35 and Summarit 50 to test over the easter holidays.

 

So that was the story, here is what i consider doing.

 

Sell:

Canon 5D Mark III

Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 L

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 L IS Macro 

Canon EF 16-35 f/4 L IS

( i also have a Samyang 14mm and a Canon EF 100-400 L IS that i will keep for astrophotography and safari as i bought both second hand at a bargain)

 

Buy: 

Mint second hand M240

New Summarit 50mm f/2.4 // or // a new Zeiss Planar ZM 50mm f/2.

 

I then plan to buy a second-hand Canon 6d or the sort if a photo trip involving safari's or astrophotography comes along. i also plan a ultra wide like the CV 15 Heliar or similar for the M at a later stage. 

 

The dealer will give me a very nice price on a Mint demo-used silver M240 with a thumbs up- soft release and original leica leather halfcase, all completely mint condition. the optics i'll have to buy new. i guess the whole trade-in will cost me about 2000$ equivalent with the Summarit and around 1100$ with the Zeiss.

 

First of all, does this sound sane? i have this feeling that if i actually enjoy real rangefinder photography the M will actually travel with me rather than the 5D3 staying at home. 

 

Second, should i get the 50mm Zeiss Planar rather than the new 2015 50mm Summarit 2.4? its under half the price, and as i understand the Zeiss have gotten really good reviews, but so have the Summarit. 

I'm not sure the half stop will make a big difference, Since i'm new to M mount lenses, what do you guys recommend? 

 

I guess i just seek some opinions and perhaps experiences from others that might have done something similar. 

 

It's a big step to ditch my DSLR gear, but i just don't use it, so i guess i want some opinions on the plan of keeping the ultra-wide and telezoom and potentially buying/renting a canon body for potential future occasions too.

 

Thanks for reading my rant/wall of text.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[earleygallery]

Hi,

 

I expect most people responding will encourage you to buy the Leica, this being a Leica forum Some may even suggest the SL!

 

I think you should reserve judgement until you've had the trial with the loan camera and see how you get on. Rangefinders aren't for everyone and you're making the switch from AF to MF.

 

The 5D isn't massively bigger in size than the M but you have some large and heavy glass. A Canon 50mm f1.8 would be more sensible if you want to cut down on weight. 

 

If you were to buy the M, and still have need for a DSLR, it might be better to keep your Canon body and sell the Q, and adding a 28mm lens for the M.

[Martin Fagerås]

Hi. 

 

Probably hehe. 

 

The SL is out of the question because of price / lens size, it does not appeal to me either to be honest, i have tested it briefly.

Selling the Q is also not an option, the combo of EVF, AF and Lens + sensor pair IQ is unsurpassed. not to mention it's cheaper an a 28 Summilux makes it a keeper.

 

My reasoning regarding keeping the 100-400mm and 14mm is basically that i bought them so cheap, and the trips i get to use them is so seldom that i can't justify keeping a 5d3 in a bag and take it out every second year. then i'd rather have a M i can use regularly and then rent/borrow/buy(then sell) a canon body for those rare occasions. Unfortunately the M is not a good tool for Super telephoto or night sky photography.

 

I agree with the opinion regarding 5d body size vs the M though, but the 5D3 body alone weighs more than a M240+50 f/2.4. And to be frankly honest, a 5D3+EF50mm f/1.8 Nifty fifty is nowhere near the image quality the Leica combo delivers, it is AF though

 

It's hard. I will definitely spend the easter with the loaner camera to find out if rangefinders are for me to begin with though. 

 

Even though i may sound like i made up my mind, i definitely have not. I appreciate every opinion and input

[hallah]

Hi!

 

I was in the same situatuion one year ago. I sold my 5DIII and bought a M-P, together with a 35 Sumilux and a 21 Super-Elmar. This year a 50mm will be added.

 

Since that time I did a lot of photography with my Leica and I do not regret anything.

I take the Leica very often with me, it is still heavy but for me the size matters.

 

The Leica can do nearly everything I could do with my Canon:

 

- Together with the EVF, LEE Seven5 Filter Kit and tripod it is perfekt for landscape.

- I am using the rangefinder for Street and Portrait

 

There are only 2 things I am a bit annoyed:

 

- When doing studio-work it is not possible to use the EVF together flash or trigger. You would need accesories for about 1500 Euro and the Leica is becomeing bulky.

- The lenses are not weather sealed.

 

 

My advice: Do it!

[jackson.gabriel]

I was doing similar math with my rather large collection of Nikon gear. In the end I probably didn't do the most financially sound decision: I switched to Leica M.

 

However, the number of pictures I have taken and actually really liked shot up exponentially.

 

My camera no longer sits in my office while I take snapshots with my iPhone. I just grab my M-P with 50mm summilux and go shoot. Right now saving for the 28mm summicron.

 

My only advice, get the Leica glass for your Leica. The Leica M in itself is just a decent digital camera, but when paired with Leica glass the two shine together.

[jaapv]

 

There are only 2 things I am a bit annoyed:

 

- When doing studio-work it is not possible to use the EVF together flash or trigger. You would need accesories for about 1500 Euro and the Leica is becomeing bulky.

- The lenses are not weather sealed.

 

 

My advice: Do it!

 

 

 

According to Leica the lenses are sufficiently weathersealed to match the body, by narrow machining tolerances.

[Jeff S]

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I think you should reserve judgement until you've had the trial with the loan camera and see how you get on. Rangefinders aren't for everyone and you're making the switch from AF to MF.

 

 

+1  Everyone is different....not a survey decision.

 

Jeff

[Peter H]

See how you get on with the rangefinder experiment.

 

If you find fuji XT1 files disappointing in terms of image quality, (I believe they are capable of astonishingly high quality, very close indeed to the M after a little processing, but not as large, obviously) you may want to think seriously about how you personally prefer to handle files from different systems before committing yourself to wholesale change.

[pgk]

Rangefinders aren't for everyone and you're making the switch from AF to MF.

 

I would echo this. Reserve judgement until you've tried the Leica M240 and see whether it suits you. As for lenses, well if you don't mind secondhand you should find some good deals on used 50mm lenses Summicrons and Summarits if you look hard enough.

[A Almulla]

I think you should reserve judgement until you've had the trial with the loan camera and see how you get on. Rangefinders aren't for everyone and you're making the switch from AF to MF.

 

 

+1  Everyone is different....not a survey decision.

 

+2

 

As for the Fuji vs Leica debate, I still use my X100s and still love it with my M240 with 35 cron and 50 Lux. Just saying not all tastes are alike and another reason to try a loaner.

 

I need to find a home for my Nikon gear which also is collecting dust.

[Jared]

My photography has improved dramatically since switching to Leica. I attribute this to:

-Renewed interest

-Slowing down and thinking about the pic

-Willingness to bring a smaller camera with me

-Fantastic glass

 

There are some huge limitations, though, and you should be aware. First, since it is on your list, is astrophotographers. The M240 is not a good choice for most astrophotographers. Read noise is a bit higher than most current sensors, there is no way to turn off the dark subtraction (so no master dark or bias frames), and as far as I know there are no 'T' adapters made for M mount, so it is nearly impossible to attach a Leica body to a telescope. You are much better off with either Canon or Nikon DSLR's for astrophotographers.

 

Second, as others have pointed out, there are serious limitations to rangefinder focus. Not a big deal at 28mm or 35mm, but as you hit 50mm and above it becomes more difficult to nail the focus. This isn't just a matter of eyesight or skill, either. There are simply limitations of mechanics when trying to triangulate with suh a short baseline. Each lens will be a little different on your camera and you will need to learn how much (if at all) to adjust focus at various subject distances. Not a big deal at 50mm unless you are shooting at f/2 or below, but that's one of the favorite things for Leica photographers to do--shoot wide open. By the time you hit 75mm your percentage of keepers will be going down. At 90mm it's even harder, unless you are willing to use the EVF, but that's not as elegant a solution (though quite workable). Also, the flash capabilities are generally poor compared to Nikon and Canon, so keep that in mind.

 

It sounds like I am down on Leica, but I'm not. It's almost all I shoot now aside from astrophotographers. But if your priorities don't Mach the system's capabilities you will be disappointed. If you just want to expand your shooting beyond 28mm to 35mm, 50mm, and perhaps to UWA with an accessory viewfinder a Leica M can't be beat. If you want more focal length than 50mm and aren't already used to rangefinders you may be disappointed.

 

Leica has almost never made a bad lens, so I would stick with Leica glass as a general rule, though there are some superb examples of other M mount lenses from CV and from Zeiss.

 

- Jared

[jaapv]

Actually the mathematical turning point for focusing accuracy is between 90 and 135 mm The exact length depends on the precise baseline of the rf, as you say.

[icqcq]

Forth:

 

I grew up shooting SLRs. Moved over to rangefinders as my primary about fifteen years ago. When Leica fell behind on digital, I bought back into SLRs, picking up a Canon5D and lenses, and never looked forward to working with that equipment. Ever. When projects dried up, I sold it off, and when I couldn't resist any more, I bought the M240. I have a Sony A7 that I keep as a backup and a long-lens shooter, but I prefer the straightforward working of the rangefinder.

 

So, Yes, I would dump the big SLR. When it comes time for the safari, I would seriously look at the Sony A7, because you can also comfortably shoot the M-mount lenses on it. And the R-mounts. And some really solid Sony/Zeiss glass. The handling is peculiar: it looks like a 3/4scale SLR (especially with the aux battery pack), but it's small and light. And it gets good reviews. The heft, for me, is wrong, and, like most modern cameras, it's way too busy with buttons knobs switches displays auxiliary displays flexible displays and all the 'help' that manufacturers pack in to cameras that just get in the way, but if you're going to do something in addition to the M, that's what I'd look at.

 

It feels like you've already got momentum towards the transition. Having made that transition myself, and more than once, I'm going to give you the friendly shove: move to the M. If you're content with simpler - and many people are so accustomed now to complication that 'simpler' feels 'stupider' - then you'll enjoy working with the M. If budget is a major constraint, don't hesitate to buy a couple of used Zeiss lenses (15+50?) to work with until you've confirmed that the rangefinder is for you, and then you can pick up Leica glass that fits your eye. And when you need the SLR, look at the A7 in whatever version meets your needs.

[Jed Orme]

A lot of good advice from everyone above, & I would echo all of it; it is especially the case that the rangefinder & manual operation of the M is still quite different from the Fuji.  I bought a used M-240 after leaving my Nikon D7000 behind, but first spent almost 5 years with Fuji X (X100/S, X-E2 & X-Pro1), & I am very glad I made the final change to Leica.  I am both using it a lot more & enjoying photography more than ever.  I also have a Zeiss 50mm Planar that I find to be an excellent lens on the M - extremely sharp & the color from the M I find better than when I was using it on the XP1.  I also brought a Leica 90mm Tele-Elmarit & CV 21mm Skopar with me that I had adapted for the X system.  I next bought a used 35mm Summarit & can also recommend these lenses, so I think you probably would be happy with either the 50mm Summarit or Zeiss Planar.  Your plan to try everything out is a very good idea before making the change, but I have no hesitation in recommending that you do so.  Good luck with whatever you might decide.

[Paul J]

I took a leap of faith and bought an M9 kit and some lenses a few years back at a time when I was using dSLR's, both 135 and medium format. It was, as you are no doubt aware, a very expensive move and I felt it was risky and a bit foolish. It turns out it was probably one of the best decisions I've ever made in terms of gear, and I never did, and still don't look back. I have since bought a 5DS R, only because I need the resolution in small camera, and I still do use Medium Format but if I could get away with it I would sell everything else I own. I do believe Leica will one day catch up in that regard (resolution) and I am still besotted to the point of obsession with the look of the Leica lenses; Something that is truly unique. I don't want to sound sycophantic or hyperbolic, but to me, it's close to perfect and unmatched by any thing else I use for the look. Then there is rangefinder focussing, it's now my preferred focus method for composition, for being able to see out side the frame and also for the fact there is never any finder blackout. The camera itself has some annoyances ranging from niggles - annoying, but generally nothing that has ultimately defeated my love for it, nor nothing I couldn't find a work around for. I use it both commercially and personally. It gets serious intense use and yes, it's up to the task of such.

 

However it really is something that you can only decide for yourself. You have to try it and see - you may love or hate it.

[ECohen]

"However it really is something that you can only decide for yourself. You have to try it and see - you may love or hate it."

 

Ditto  

 

I love my M but  I still occasionally shoot with a Nikon  for fill in flash and AF (so you knowI hate using the Nikon for a lot of reasons).......one day soon I will dump it and go 100% Leica 

You really do need to try it and decide for yourself........Also this is a bad group to ask as we all love the M   

[rivi1969]

Hello. 

 

I'm considering dumping my 5D Mark III with a few L lenses these days. I checked Lightroom and found out that i actually haven't used it at all in almost one year, Mostly because of weight. 

 

Long story short.  about two years ago i bought a Fuji X100T, then a X-T1 a few months later. I loved the size / weight, but i never got comfortable with the image quality. 

 

Just before christmas i sold all my fuji gear and bought the Leica Q, and I'm head over heels in love..... everything works for me with this camera including the focal length.

 

To be honest, the Q probably work for 80% of what i shoot, but i do like the occasional compressed portrait, and when i travel i do miss 50'ish FL every now and then, but i have not travelled with my 5D3 for almost two years now. I have to face it, it collects dust. 

 

I also like astrophotography, and have been on a couple of african safari's. two scenarios i know a Leica M is not really the optimal tool for. 

 

I'm not really sure Rangefinders are for me either, so my local dealer is lending me a M240 + Summicron 35 and Summarit 50 to test over the easter holidays.

 

So that was the story, here is what i consider doing.

 

Sell:

Canon 5D Mark III

Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 L

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 L IS Macro 

Canon EF 16-35 f/4 L IS

( i also have a Samyang 14mm and a Canon EF 100-400 L IS that i will keep for astrophotography and safari as i bought both second hand at a bargain)

 

Buy: 

Mint second hand M240

New Summarit 50mm f/2.4 // or // a new Zeiss Planar ZM 50mm f/2.

 

I then plan to buy a second-hand Canon 6d or the sort if a photo trip involving safari's or astrophotography comes along. i also plan a ultra wide like the CV 15 Heliar or similar for the M at a later stage. 

 

The dealer will give me a very nice price on a Mint demo-used silver M240 with a thumbs up- soft release and original leica leather halfcase, all completely mint condition. the optics i'll have to buy new. i guess the whole trade-in will cost me about 2000$ equivalent with the Summarit and around 1100$ with the Zeiss.

 

First of all, does this sound sane? i have this feeling that if i actually enjoy real rangefinder photography the M will actually travel with me rather than the 5D3 staying at home. 

 

Second, should i get the 50mm Zeiss Planar rather than the new 2015 50mm Summarit 2.4? its under half the price, and as i understand the Zeiss have gotten really good reviews, but so have the Summarit. 

I'm not sure the half stop will make a big difference, Since i'm new to M mount lenses, what do you guys recommend? 

 

I guess i just seek some opinions and perhaps experiences from others that might have done something similar. 

 

It's a big step to ditch my DSLR gear, but i just don't use it, so i guess i want some opinions on the plan of keeping the ultra-wide and telezoom and potentially buying/renting a canon body for potential future occasions too.

 

Thanks for reading my rant/wall of text.

 

You said your Canon has been almost a year collecting dust but anyway you want a 6D when the weight difference between them is not that much for choosing one over the other... Had 2 Fujis but didn't like the image quality... Got the Q 3 months ago and now need an M. All the symptoms of a classic -and severe- G.A.S. issue.  

[zlatkob]

It sounds like a good plan to me.  If you don't use gear, there is no point in keeping it.  Buy something you're more likely to use.

 

The change from 5D3 to 6D makes sense too, not just to save a little weight, but also to save money.  If you want to try a wonderfully light Canon lens, consider the 40mm f/2.8 STM or the 50mm f/1.8 STM.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Herr Barnack]

@Forth,

I think you are on the right track. A minty used M240 is a great way to start out in the digital M realm. 

 

If you are willing to spend the extra cash to get the Summarit 50mm f/2.4 rather than going with the Zeiss lens, I would encourage you to invest a little more and get the Summicron M 50 f/2 (not the APO lens, the one that sells for $2068 at B&H).  With the 50 Summicron you gain a half stop for around $350 which is an epic deal in the new Leica M lens marketplace. 

 

That having been said, Zeiss lenses are awfully good lenses; the Zeiss T* lenses that I used with my Hasselblad 503cxi camera were outstanding.  I have not used any of the 35mm Zeiss lenses, but if they are equal to the lenses made for Hasselblad, they will serve you well.

 

An M240 and one or two small lenses is not a burden to carry all day when you are accustomed to large DSLRs and the ponderous zoom lenses they use.  An M240 with one lens attached, carried in a small and light bag is practically unnoticeable in terms of weight and size.

[Echo63]

I think you may be on the right track.

try the camera out first though, the RF isnt for everyone.

Personally i love it, and it is one of the main reasons i bought an M.

 

 

I will say this though.

The M is the most frustrating camera i have ever used.

But its a good thing

 

Every other camera that has frustrated me, has done so because of failings in the camera - AF too slow, AE fooled by bright/dark background etc.

 

The M is the complete opposite, it is a beautiful, but dumb picture making box, and i dont get frustrated with it - i get frustrated with myself because i am the only one to blame if i dont get it right - i dont use the AE, and there is no AF.

This frustration pushes me to get better, to work harder at mastering the capture of moments in a light-tight box.

 

I went with a 50f2.5 Summarit over the Zeiss, i figured i was spending a lot of money on an M, i may as well get the same brand lens, as it will hopefully be better matched to the camera (i dont know how true this is, the planar is supposed to be excellent, but i was burned by a Sigma 70-200, it was 1/4 the lens the canon was, for half the price of the canon)

My dealer also did me a great deal - so it just came down to deciding which one i wanted, as the cost difference was nil.