Is the M4 under-rated?

[earleygallery]

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It's always seemed to me that the M4 was rather expensive compared to either earlier M2/3's or the later M4-2/p's.

[hepcat]

Some would argue the if the M5 is a true M

 

 

Hello Michael,

 

An M5 is as much of an "M" camera as any of the "M" cameras before it or since.

...

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

Please, gentlemen...  the d@mned camera has been out and in use for forty-five years.  I heard this argument for the first five years that the M5 was sold, and it was a tired argument when it started.  Whether or not you like the camera, it is what it is.  You're welcome to your opinions certainly, but the discussion is moot.

 

Thank you for indulging me.  

 

The M4 and it's later variants are the Volkswagen Rabbit of the Leica world.   They're tough and there's lots of them out there.  The do the job quietly and without fanfare.  They occasionally need service, but once serviced they're back in the fray for a long time again.  They don't have any real flaws, and they don't have anything that is amazing about them either.  They were designed to do a job; they do the job, and they do it every time...  quietly and unobtrusively.  In the 1980s, Volkswagen should have been re-named "The Rabbit Car Company of Germany."    The M4 (and subsequently the M6) has become like the Rabbit in that the public collectively pictures the M4 body style when the name "Leica" is mentioned.  Leica probably could have been renamed "The M Camera Company of Germany" then too. 

 

The M4 is a workhorse, timeless design.  With its variants (including the M6) it has become synonymous with "Leica." 

Edited February 5, 2016 by hepcat

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[wlaidlaw]

I have to admit to being prejudiced, as the M4 was the first new Leica I had in 1967. The body was bought by my father as my 21st present but I had to use the ratty Elmar he normally used as an enlargement lens with an adapter ring, until I had earned enough to buy a second hand V1 Summilux 50, later that year. I still have the M4 but not the Summilux which was stolen during a house move.

 

After a rebuild last year by Peter at CRR in Luton, mainly as there was a garden growing inside the rangefinder, it is looking and working like new. It is a very early M4 at only #47 of the production series and was originally destined to be the display/demo camera at Lizars in Aberdeen, Scotland. However, my father, who was a very old customer, talked them into selling it. The M6 I had later, had a very graunchy wind on compared with the silky wind of my M4. The only thing I miss, is a 28mm frameline but in reality, you can just use the outside of the viewfinder, which is pretty close. I also have an MR-4 Leicameter, which sits permanently on my M4. 

 

Wilson

[Joop van Heijgen]

The M4 is in no any way 'under-rated'...The prices of the M4 are still high....

 

Personaly I do find it one of the best M Leica's ever made. I do use this camera since 1978.

 

For practical use the M 4-P is also an excellent camera and a real 'work horse'

[michaelwj]

Please, gentlemen...  the d@mned camera has been out and in use for forty-five years.  I heard this argument for the first five years that the M5 was sold, and it was a tired argument when it started.  Whether or not you like the camera, it is what it is.  You're welcome to your opinions certainly, but the discussion is moot.

 

Thank you for indulging me.  

 

I probably should have included a sarcastic smiley with my original response ...

Edited February 9, 2016 by michaelwj

[michaelwj]

The M4 is in no any way 'under-rated'...The prices of the M4 are still high....

 

Personaly I do find it one of the best M Leica's ever made. I do use this camera since 1978.

 

For practical use the M 4-P is also an excellent camera and a real 'work horse'

 

I find in Australia, prices for a chrome M4 are about the same as a chrome M2, and cheaper than both the M4-2 and M4-P. I think the M4-P is rated higher for the 28mm famelines, but what about the M4-2? Just because it is black I suppose. I think the M4 is currently the best used buy - hence the under-rated claim of the OP.

 

Cheers,

Michael

[Fotoklaus]

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In practical use the discussions about the different Mechanic M- Cameras have no meaning, in my opinion.

It depends on how well the camera is used and if it's got a service in 40 or 50 years.

"Oh, it doesn't have brass gears? Must be bad." In fact you can't wear out a proper M2, M4, M5 or M6 with just taking pictures.

If you want a camera to use, get the one with the features you need and which is in a proper shape for your budget.

the discussions and rumours from 40 years ago are meaningless, since the "new" models have proven their reliability until now.

[Matlock]

In practical use the discussions about the different Mechanic M- Cameras have no meaning, in my opinion.

It depends on how well the camera is used and if it's got a service in 40 or 50 years.

"Oh, it doesn't have brass gears? Must be bad." In fact you can't wear out a proper M2, M4, M5 or M6 with just taking pictures.

If you want a camera to use, get the one with the features you need and which is in a proper shape for your budget.

the discussions and rumours from 40 years ago are meaningless, since the "new" models have proven their reliability until now.

 

Fully agree. I much prefer my M4-P to my M3, but that's just my choice. ALL Leica Ms are great cameras, just get what suits you.

[Joop van Heijgen]

http://www.leica-store-muenchen.de/nc/de/gebrauchtkameras/gebrauchtkameras/seite/1/kategorie/leica-m/produkt/0.html

I find in Australia, prices for a chrome M4 are about the same as a chrome M2, and cheaper than both the M4-2 and M4-P. I think the M4-P is rated higher for the 28mm famelines, but what about the M4-2? Just because it is black I suppose. I think the M4 is currently the best used buy - hence the under-rated claim of the OP.

 

Cheers,

Michael

Edited February 9, 2016 by Joop van Heijgen

[Joop van Heijgen]

 

 

http://www.leica-store-muenchen.de/nc/de/gebrauchtkameras/gebrauchtkameras/seite/1/kategorie/leica-m/produkt/0.html

[sblitz]

the price spreads you are looking at need to be adjusted for the grading of the camera. I find the M4 generally priced just below the M6 and above the M4-2 and M4P. Below the 6 because there is no meter (more popular demand for in-camera meter) and above the 4-2 and 4P because these are not considered "collectibles". I owned an M4 and loved it, and an M6 and disliked it -- flare. I would re-purchase an M4 and the first M4-2s (before the condenser was taken out of the viewfinder and made it flare prone like the M4P and M6) but no M6 (classic or TTL). M7 and MP, absolutely yes -- brighter viewfinders. The M4 is a great, sturdy, smooth instrument and a joy to hold and use.

[pgk]

Well my M4 is now here, appears to operate as smoothly as I could hope for, now has my 35 pre-aspheric Summilux on and is loaded with Tri-X. All I now need is some time and light!

[pico]

With that gorgeous old 35 Summilux you don't even need a lot of light. Enjoy!

Edited February 10, 2016 by pico

[Yellup]

I'm à proud owner of my first Leica.....an M4, and indeed very new to this forum.

 

I hope to participate regularly in topics and offer help and advice as much as receive it.

[Herr Barnack]

I can't address the M4, but I am extremely happy with my M4-P; if you are thinking of getting a copy, I can't see any way you would ever regret it. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Carlos Danger

[jonnymoondog]

for me the M4 is the iconic classic leica. I had an m3 but sold it--never bonded. I found out pretty quickly I wasn't a 50 shooter. The M4 has the fantastic quick reload system, is incredibly solidly build, more so than my new mp, and has the sweet swiveling thumb. What's not to love?

[ColColt]

I love the M2 and have had two of them. I recently bought the M4 as it was rated as EX+ condition and from the pictures I had to agree. Soon to be here early next week.

 

s-l1600z by David Fincher, on Flickr

s-l1600v by David Fincher, on Flickr

s-l1600x by David Fincher, on Flickr

Edited February 26, 2016 by ColColt

[ColColt]

I ran across an interesting article on the M4.

 

http://leicaphilia.com/tag/leica-m4/