Ramesh Posted December 29, 2015 Share #1 Posted December 29, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all, I would like to draw on the collective wisdom of this wonderful group. A little bit of background about myself.. I am an enthusiast photo hobbyist. I have been shooting film for a long time (Nikon, Hasselblad, Rolleiflex) mainly family, people, landscape, and travel photography. Currently, I shoot predominantly a Nikon D800 with a bunch of nice glasses. I enjoy the process of photography (planning, capturing, processing and printing film) as much as the somewhat mixed outcomes I have been achieving over the years. For a very long time, I resisted the temptation of buying into digital photography, until Nikon came out with the D700 - the main reason being the hugely depreciating nature of the digital bodies and the relatively short product lifecycle. I do a have hugely supportive family, who tend to support all my buying decisions so much so that, often the barrier to buying decisions is my own requirement for cost/value justification. Right from my college days, I always wanted to shoot the holy trinity of Hasselblad, Rolleiflex and Leica. Among my many weaknesses - two stand out. I am a sucker for well engineered, well made camera equipment, and I can not bring myself to getting rid of any of my camera gear, I have bought over the years. My son keeps reminding me that it is like selling family silver :-). Recently, I bought a used M6 along with a near new 50mm Lux. Shortly thereafter, I bought a new 35mm Lux. I have been shooting both colour and black and white with this setup. I have been really enjoying the process of capturing images with the Leica and the size, tactility of the body and lenses and the imaging capabilities of the lenses. Having got into the Leica eco system, I am increasingly drawn towards getting the digital M. The one thing that is making me think hard is that the M 240 seems to be in its late stages of the product lifecycle and whether sinking a lot of money (The M sells for close to $8500 in Australia) is a prudent thing to do. Any input you guys can provide that might add clarity to my own thought processes will be greatly appreciated. Thanks a ton... Ramesh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 Hi Ramesh, Take a look here Buying M240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
gpwhite Posted December 29, 2015 Share #2 Posted December 29, 2015 True that all digital bodies become technologically obsolescent right about the time they are introduced. But your interest is in photography, so having the most pixels and firmware gimmicks should not matter. The flexibility of the M 240 DNG is remarkable, and you can make prints without being consumed by the chemicals . The M typ 240 series is a superlative RF. Compared to the M6, you will probably be very impressed by the brighter, crisper and more precise RF. A lightly used M 240 should be a very good value, or if you want the model most closely aligned with your M6 and having the newest sensor/ processor in the M typ 240 family, the M typ 262 is really a great camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted December 29, 2015 Share #3 Posted December 29, 2015 Hi all, I would like to draw on the collective wisdom of this wonderful group. A little bit of background about myself.. I am an enthusiast photo hobbyist. I have been shooting film for a long time (Nikon, Hasselblad, Rolleiflex) mainly family, people, landscape, and travel photography. Currently, I shoot predominantly a Nikon D800 with a bunch of nice glasses. I enjoy the process of photography (planning, capturing, processing and printing film) as much as the somewhat mixed outcomes I have been achieving over the years. For a very long time, I resisted the temptation of buying into digital photography, until Nikon came out with the D700 - the main reason being the hugely depreciating nature of the digital bodies and the relatively short product lifecycle. I do a have hugely supportive family, who tend to support all my buying decisions so much so that, often the barrier to buying decisions is my own requirement for cost/value justification. Right from my college days, I always wanted to shoot the holy trinity of Hasselblad, Rolleiflex and Leica. Among my many weaknesses - two stand out. I am a sucker for well engineered, well made camera equipment, and I can not bring myself to getting rid of any of my camera gear, I have bought over the years. My son keeps reminding me that it is like selling family silver :-). Recently, I bought a used M6 along with a near new 50mm Lux. Shortly thereafter, I bought a new 35mm Lux. I have been shooting both colour and black and white with this setup. I have been really enjoying the process of capturing images with the Leica and the size, tactility of the body and lenses and the imaging capabilities of the lenses. Having got into the Leica eco system, I am increasingly drawn towards getting the digital M. The one thing that is making me think hard is that the M 240 seems to be in its late stages of the product lifecycle and whether sinking a lot of money (The M sells for close to $8500 in Australia) is a prudent thing to do. Any input you guys can provide that might add clarity to my own thought processes will be greatly appreciated. Thanks a ton... Ramesh Ramesh, try rent a M240 for a few days, then a SL and see which fits you best ! Cheers JM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 29, 2015 Share #4 Posted December 29, 2015 I would buy an M240 second hand, wait for the next M in 2016 or choose an M262 if you don't need live view, EVF and higher isos than 3200. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 29, 2015 Share #5 Posted December 29, 2015 By many accounts and testing, the M240 produces better images than the D800E. Something synergistic about the way Leica approaches camera design. Here is a Quote from Erwin Puts,."According to Mark Dubovoy with a “Ph.D in Physics and many years of involvement in leading edge research” (his words) the Leica M produces better images than the Nikon D800E, notwithstanding a lower DxO sensor rating, but he is unable to explain this result in a scientific way. The assumption is that the lens/sensor/shutter combination plays a large part in combination of course with Leica electronics and new Leica software. Because of this integrated system the M outperforms the D800E by a good margin and as the Nikon camera is one superb camera, one may infer the performance of the Leica M. " My point, the M240 will be an exceptional camera for many years to come and I can't imagine that it will ever become obsolete when the new M comes along. Just, buy a used version and they are relatively cheap. Then when the new M comes out you can sell the old or trade it in and not be much the poorer. You'll love the M. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 29, 2015 Share #6 Posted December 29, 2015 A new M is likely next year IMHO. If you buy an M today it will still be the same camera when the next one comes out though. As said, buy a s/h M so you won't suffer so much depreciation, or just wait a while and keep shooting film in your M6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrödinger's cat Posted December 29, 2015 Share #7 Posted December 29, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm not sure what the eBay purchasing situation might be in your part of the world, but If it's viable I would recommend you look into used specimens. There seems to be a fair number of sellers turning over low mileage cameras in anticipation of the next model. For me at least, buying a brand new camera at the end of the product cycle would require some very serious consideration and a strong reason not to wait, particularly for someone with a "supportive environment" Regarding comparing the M240 to other cameras, I question whether this is actually a productive exercise. You either find something about Leica's that speaks to you or you don't. I have the excellent D800e in addition to the M240 and they simply make no effort to play in the same arena. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 29, 2015 Share #8 Posted December 29, 2015 I thought the Mark Dubovoy review of the M240 was a well known joke. He basically pasted his M8 review on the M240 review. The joke was that the M240 was the best camera ever... but, what then of the M8 that, at the time was the best camera ever. My point being, that the M240 is not going to be any less of a camera when the new M arrives. The D800e just happened to be the camera Mark Dubovoy randomly decided to include in his hyperbole. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoothlander Posted December 29, 2015 Share #9 Posted December 29, 2015 I've been married for 23 years, and don't see any reason to trade for another model. My car is ten years old and runs fine. Photography is much more then the equipment. I'm always astonished at images I've seen that were taken with "inferior" cameras. I'm a recent convert to the Leica Q and the M240. I suck at focusing the 240.....but I'm getting better every day. Go with your gut. I'm sure your photographs will be great no matter what camera you use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted December 29, 2015 Share #10 Posted December 29, 2015 Given product cycles thede will be s new M within about a year. It might pay off to weight a few months, for I'm sure there will be improvements to the sensor and image quality in a new M. Image quality and a good sensor are useful things for photography, not gimmicks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted December 29, 2015 Share #11 Posted December 29, 2015 any hints about Leica product cycles is pure guesswork but saying that, the entry level ME came out towards the end of the M9 product cycle & so one wonders if the M262 is following the same path towards that of the M240 cycle? who knows. it's all conjecture & whilst it may sound like a cliche, any more time spent waiting would be your time lost shooting...digitally at least since you have the M6. for what it's worth, members here are still posting amazing work with an M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markforce Posted December 29, 2015 Share #12 Posted December 29, 2015 My first Leica love has been the M9, 5 years and counting now. I was not going to upgrade to the 240 though I always thought the improvements were attractive ( and I am not so much into the CCD CMOS discussion, mind you). That said, I just bought the M246 and I am thrilled. Now, you can argue that the comparison does not work but it also comes off a 3 year old sensor and platform. The point I try making, there will be a new M and who knows its monochrome capabilities might be mind blowing, plus color and wouldn't it have been wiser to wait.... You get the gist and while not the same situation, I would go for a used 240 now if I were you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
@McLeica Posted December 29, 2015 Share #13 Posted December 29, 2015 Go for the best Leica glass you can get and worry less about what they are attached to. Given you plan and think a lot about what you are going to shoot you can always compensate for some of the tech limitations of earlier Leica M's. The M9 is still a cracking camera and s/h, a steal. Fast glass helps a lot with the M9 and I've always thought the images from the CCD superior to the 240. Coming from a film background, go compare. Alternately, sometimes a digital camera comes along that marries both body and lens very well and to me, that's the Q. But then again I think less and shoot more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted December 29, 2015 Share #14 Posted December 29, 2015 By many accounts and testing, the M240 produces better images than the D800E. Something synergistic about the way Leica approaches camera design. Here is a Quote from Erwin Puts,."According to Mark Dubovoy with a “Ph.D in Physics and many years of involvement in leading edge research” (his words) the Leica M produces better images than the Nikon D800E, notwithstanding a lower DxO sensor rating, but he is unable to explain this result in a scientific way. The assumption is that the lens/sensor/shutter combination plays a large part in combination of course with Leica electronics and new Leica software. Because of this integrated system the M outperforms the D800E by a good margin and as the Nikon camera is one superb camera, one may infer the performance of the Leica M. " My point, the M240 will be an exceptional camera for many years to come and I can't imagine that it will ever become obsolete when the new M comes along. Just, buy a used version and they are relatively cheap. Then when the new M comes out you can sell the old or trade it in and not be much the poorer. You'll love the M. Rick I have some thoughts on why this might be the case. It's the optics, the colour rendering they provide and especially the contrast, it is a lot more intense than most Japanese glass. But also the camera itself, the sensor seems to offer excellent colour rendering and tonality compared to the Sony sensor in the D800E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 29, 2015 Share #15 Posted December 29, 2015 Which raw converter have you been using if i may ask? Just curious as i have never had the least colour issue out of Capture One with the Sony sensors i've used so far. I have no experience with the D800E though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoism Posted December 29, 2015 Share #16 Posted December 29, 2015 Ramesh: Like suggested above, rent one and use it to see if it is what you had in mind. If it works out, buy it (new or used ). There will always be new models coming out, but you don't have to worry unless there are new features that you can't do without. Before that happens, your M240 will still be the same camera you fell in love with today and do whatever you needed it to do for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramesh Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted December 30, 2015 Hi all, Thanks a lot for all your helpful input. I do appreciate the help you provide to the newbies like me. For the moment, I have decided not to buy a new M240. I will look out for lightly used second hand ones and wait out the next 6 months and re evaluate my needs/wants at that time. In the meantime, I will try and put the 50 and 35 Luxes to better use on my M6. Thanks once again - you guys are awesome... Cheers, Ramesh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvcaesbroeck Posted December 31, 2015 Share #18 Posted December 31, 2015 Before buying an M240, do some tests. Mine (I bought new) had to be send to Leica Germany 2 times due to banding problems. So be careful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted December 31, 2015 Share #19 Posted December 31, 2015 Hi Ramesh, I understand where you are coming from. We all want the latest and gratest, me especially! As a suggestion you could buy the 'cheapest' secondhand M240 that you can find as long as it has a guarantee from the seller, and if you prefer the next M you can sell the M240 without losing too much money. A secondhand M holds is value better than most secondhand cameras. Or, with a secondhand M240, you could use the money for the 'new' M to buy a few lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 31, 2015 Share #20 Posted December 31, 2015 Hi all, Thanks a lot for all your helpful input. I do appreciate the help you provide to the newbies like me. For the moment, I have decided not to buy a new M240. I will look out for lightly used second hand ones and wait out the next 6 months and re evaluate my needs/wants at that time. In the meantime, I will try and put the 50 and 35 Luxes to better use on my M6. Thanks once again - you guys are awesome... Cheers, Ramesh I you have patience, wait about 7 months. The used M 240's will drop about € 800/€ 1000,- in price at that time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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