pico Posted December 11, 2015 Share #1  Posted December 11, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am curious of the M3. The viewfinder with 50mm is intriguing. But first I have perhaps obvious questions. Can the M9 approximate the view of the M3 somehow? And it seems that the double-stroke models had issues - true or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 11, 2015 Posted December 11, 2015 Hi pico, Take a look here M3 - which version, please. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
TomB_tx Posted December 11, 2015 Share #2 Â Posted December 11, 2015 The double stroke advance may be more prone to slippage with wear, so under load it slips and won't fully advance film and shutter. The known cure is to convert to single stroke mechanism. My 1955 model started slipping the first roll after a curtain replacement and CLA, and I was told to convert to SS. But with time and use it stopped slipping. Perhaps over-lubed during CLA? The 50 frame line on an M3 is always visible, with rounded corners. Also higher magnification than you an get on an M9. I still prefer the M2 / M4 finder, except for 90mm lenses. Â I have both DS and SS M3s, and don't prefer one over the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted December 11, 2015 Share #3  Posted December 11, 2015 Hello Pico,  There were a number of versions of he .91X (Some say .92X) M3 just like there were a number of versions of the Hasselblad 500C.  There were at least 2 different range/viewfinders & a number of various shutter configurations including single stroke & double stroke models. All kinds of detail changes over time, here & there.  The M3 range/viewfinder was replaced with the .72X range/viewfinders of the M2/M4/M5, etc. all of which have a lot in common with today's current .68X versions. The reason for the replacement, in part, was that the .91x range/viewfinder, like the shutter on the Leicaflex, became too costly to continue to produce.      The M3 is very good with a 50mm lens & is at its best with a 90mm lens. It is clear that 90mm lenses were a significant factor in the minds of the M3's range/viewfinder's creators. The .91X range/viewfinder is no slouch with a 135mm lens without goggles either.  Best Regards,  Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted December 11, 2015 Share #4  Posted December 11, 2015 Dr. Bawendi in his article Besonderheiten der frühen Leica M3 Kameras (Particularities of an early M3) published in "25 jahre Leica Historica" (25th anniversary of Leica Historica) listed all visible changes and modifications until incl SN 963000. There are plenty of them, low resolution scan is attached. There is however one functional feature not listed there: M3 has a mechasim of blocking film transport during exposure. In the early M3 film transport mechanism was released (unblocked) after 1st curtain finished its travel, i.e. frame was still open and you can wind the film. This was modified then and film transport mechanism was released after 2nd curtain finished its travel. In practice it might have impact with long exposure time only. I am trying to find out when (SN) this modification has been implemented. And you gyus may help me: if you have M3 in SN between 707xxx and 910xxx (these are mine M3s) could you please, with no film loaded, set dial speed to 1 sec, release the shutter and immediately try to transport the film, still when 1 sec is running. My 707xxx has this fetaure my next 910xxx has it modified already. PM will be fine, thank you M3 modifications.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
@McLeica Posted December 11, 2015 Share #5  Posted December 11, 2015 You just can't beat this..... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/254226-m3-which-version-please/?do=findComment&comment=2946770'>More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted December 11, 2015 Share #6 Â Posted December 11, 2015 Hello Everybody, Â For those people unaccustomed to an M3 range/viewfinder: The image just above provided by Rapierwitman in Post #6 is an M3 range/viewfinder showing the 50mm & 135mm (no goggles) frames. As Paul said in Post #5 above: The rounded corners of the 50mm fame were to show the rounded corners of a mounted slide taken with a 50mm lens when that lens was focused @ Infinity. Â Altho it might be academically interesting to know when the changeover in the shutter lock took place as per Jerzy's Post #4 above, I would be cautious about doing this. It is unclear what adverse events might take place in certain circumstances. Â Best Regards, Â Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
105012 Posted December 11, 2015 Share #7  Posted December 11, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Since we are in the historic section of the forum: note that single stroke Leica M3's in the 919xxx to 963xxx serial number range have a spring based ratcheting system, rather than a gear based one.  Views I am sure will probably differ, but in trying these out I found the haptics of the spring system noticeably superior to the gear system of the later single strokes (and all M2's). Just one more nuance to consider/obsess over/enjoy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted December 14, 2015 Share #8 Â Posted December 14, 2015 I have both the single and double stroke versions of the M3 and I find them both to be equally good. My double stroke M3 has an SN 778XXX from 1955 and it seems to be unblocked only when the second curtain has travelled. There is no sign of any slipping whatsoever. The combined rangefinder and viewfinder of the M3 has never been equalled again by Leica, in my opinion. If you use the 35mm Summaron with goggles, it will darken somewhat but it will still be extremely usable. You also have the option of using a 35mm without goggles and a separate viewfinder such as the SBLOO. Â One feature that needs to be mentioned in connection with the M3, is the long effective rangefinder base length. This is Rangefinder Base x Image Magnification = Effective Base Length; for the M3 this is 68.5mm x 0.91 = 62.33mm, which is longer than for any other Leica rangefinder. Leaving aside the academic aspects of this, my experience in using M3 rangefinders is that they are accurate more often than other M I have used and I have used almost all of the other ones from the M2 up to the M240. There is always the possibility of user error, particularly as I wear spectacles; but the M3 rangefinder is one that works best for me. I would be interested in what other users have found as regards the accuracy aspect. Â William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph. Posted December 14, 2015 Share #9 Â Posted December 14, 2015 A cursory look through the posts above did not reveal any mention of one characteristic which I appreciated back when I used the M3. I could keep both eyes open and see the frame "projected in the air". Excellent for moving subjects. Â p. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 14, 2015 Share #10  Posted December 14, 2015 I had an M3 for a short while, but never really 'got on' with it, and I think it was those rounded corners. Looking at that image above, they just really bug me! I know the Leicaflex models have the same rounded off viewfinders too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted December 14, 2015 Share #11 Â Posted December 14, 2015 Hello James, Â For people who like slides/transparencies: Â The big, bold, rounded corners in the range/viewfinder showing the part of a mounted transparency that is visible when a person is focusing a 50mm lens on a subject at Infinity: Â Can sometimes put a smile on someone's face. Â Best Regards, Â Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted December 16, 2015 Share #12 Â Posted December 16, 2015 You just can't beat this..... Â So very true. And for everyone who does not own an M3, the inner broken-line frame shown is the one for 135mm, not for 90mm, as some may assume (the 90mm frameline is way bigger). Â Cheers, Â Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share #13 Â Posted December 16, 2015 So very true. And for everyone who does not own an M3, the inner broken-line frame shown is the one for 135mm, not for 90mm, as some may assume (the 90mm frameline is way bigger). Â That's good to know. When I find an M3 I can live with, the 135mm frame is going to be removed. If it can be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted December 16, 2015 Share #14 Â Posted December 16, 2015 That's good to know. When I find an M3 I can live with, the 135mm frame is going to be removed. If it can be. Well it will only show up if you mount a 135mm lens on it, so why would you bother removing it? ?? Â Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted December 16, 2015 Share #15  Posted December 16, 2015 Hello Gerry,  Pico might have been thinking of his consecutively serially numbered M4's.  If Pico were to mount certain un-goggled 35mm lenses on his new (to him) M3 to use with or without a separate 35mm viewer: The 135mm frame would be brought into view.  This would NOT happen with the various 35mm lenses with goggles which would only show the 50mm frame which is always there regardless of which other frame is in view.  Best Regards,  Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share #16 Â Posted December 16, 2015 Help me out here- can I have only the 50mm frame appear on the M3? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted December 16, 2015 Share #17 Â Posted December 16, 2015 Hello Pico, Â Yes. Â The 50mm frame (Please see Post #13 this Thread.) is magically always there. Image size is .91X Â Whether there is a lens mounted on the camera or not. Unlike some other "M" film cameras. Â The M3 always has the 50mm frame visible regardless of which lens is mounted. Even when a 50mm lens is mounted. Â When other lenses are mounted (ie: 90mm, 135mm - Please see Post #6 this Thread) then the 50mm frame is still visible at the edge of (But always clearly visible.) the range/viewfinder along with the other focal length's appropriate frame. Image size is .91X Â When a 35mm lens with goggles is used: The angle of coverage of the M3 range/viewfinder is expanded so that altho you are looking at a view defined by the 50mm frame, the angle of coverage is the angle of coverage of a 35mm lens. Image size is .60X Â Best Regards, Â Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share #18 Â Posted December 16, 2015 Thank you, Michael. My plan it to use only a 50mm Summitar on the M3, which will become the second full-time camera stored in the truck, along with my 6x9 Super Ikonta. Â BTW, the consecutive serial numbered M4 cameras were snapped up by a buyer from China. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted December 16, 2015 Share #19 Â Posted December 16, 2015 Hello Pico, Â I'm glad I could be helpful. Â I made some small detail changes to my Post #19 just above your response #20 after you Posted #20. You might want to read #19 again. Â Congratulations on the new home for your M4's. Â May they, their new owner & you all be equally happy. Â Best Regards, Â Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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