steppenw0lf Posted October 1, 2016 Share #161 Posted October 1, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am not going to buy this lens, I find the Summicrons more useful. So I am really surprised how much fuss is made here about it. Simply do your thoughts, step back and buy other "better" equipment. I am currently not able to tell much about the lens (Summilux 50), I have not even touched it, and will not for a while. But others here seem to know it intimately and in such an abismal way, that they can do nothing but complain about it. It must have been a great shock to touch and try it and find such a bad quality for the enormous price they paid for it. Some were so shocked they even had to refer to videos, completely unrelated to this thread, simply to overcome the psychological stress. I really do not understand why you do that to yourself. Wouldn't it be wiser and better for your heart to take a rest from this and spend your time with more exciting and spirit raising thoughts and activities - like hugging your favorite camera and glance over the phantastic photos you took with your near-perfect Sigma lenses (Or whatever is your favorite pass-time). As I am not so gifted , I will have to wait for the Dummies Book (Lenses for Dummies) that sooner or later one of you might produce, if you ever leave this forum. Until then I am simply enjoying the SL with old and new Leica lenses, and in my ignorance happy that I do not know what kind of crap is lurking behind this aluminum-milled body. Sorry I forgot: Cheers ! Hurray !! Cheers! Cheers! Cheerio ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 Hi steppenw0lf, Take a look here Summilux-SL 50 MM F/1,4 ASPH. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
LocalHero1953 Posted October 1, 2016 Share #162 Posted October 1, 2016 I'm not sure where the Leica cheerleaders are - just some who prefer to wait and see for themselves what the lens is like in their hands, rather than decide on fragmentary evidence. Genuine curiosity about onion ring bokeh: please point me to the particular photo that demonstrates this phenomenon in this lens; I can't identify it, but I may be looking at the wrong one. Edit. FWIW, I have already said I will not buy this lens: I don't need it and it is too big to be tempting (he says, making a judgement on something he hasn't seen ), but I am interested in one of the longer Summicon SLs, possibly the 90. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamdewilde Posted October 1, 2016 Share #163 Posted October 1, 2016 When the 24-90 was first shown there were endless moans about the size, weight, limited apertures, in camera firmware corrections of distortions and disbelief at Leica's comments on the performance. When the 90-280 was first shown a selection of similar observations were made. Show me the subsequent 'SL 24-90 is crap' or the 'SL 90-280 is crap' threads complaining about the poor image quality and useless design....... Almost everyone that actually OWNS one grudgingly admits that these are very fine lenses and in use are not a big and cumbersome as first assumed. I would humbly suggest those posting here actually use the SL 50/2 extensively before consigning it to the waste bin and heaping scorn on the comments by Mr Karbe ..... who is a designer and optics expert and not a salesman for Leica. I don't pass comment on lenses I don't own or have never used ....... and then based on my observations under NORMAL use ...... or those with a track record of impartial assessment. Buying Leica gear is not compulsory, but carping and criticising when you have never even touched something has no value as far as I'm concerned. I own the 24-90, I'm not a fan of it.. I can admit that I look for different things in lenses then most people do I guess (since I rarely shoot landscapes). Disliking management doesn't mean I hate the products. I'm still the biggest fan of Leica glass. But I'm not one to drink the Kool-Aid. If the product isn't good in my eyes, I'm not gonna rave about it just because I'm a brand whore. I can openly admit that my top 10 favourite lenses are all from Leica. None of the SL or TL lenses make the cut. And yes I've owned/used almost all of what Leica has to offer optically (and for good measure most other lenses from other brands too). And I can also admit that I bought a M camera because it looked cool. But I kept using it/them because I fell in love with the RF experience and M lenses. Probably one of the reasons why I hate the SL (but not the only reason). I also love the S-006 (best sensor ever), hate the S-007. There is a reason why I'm not a fan of the 50SL, and I have had access to more images then what you see on the net. And again to clarify, I probably look for different things in my optics then most of you do (I'm not a brick wall tester or landscape type shooter). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted October 1, 2016 Share #164 Posted October 1, 2016 When the 24-90 was first shown there were endless moans about the size, weight When the 90-280 was first shown a selection of similar observations were made. I continue to moan about their size and weight, for self-evident reasons. The quality is, however, as the Karbe interview claims, to be of prime quality, At least. If I think that I can manage with a more limited focal length range, or if the weather is too bad for M lenses, I tend to take the Sony A7rII and the Batis lenses (bulky + light) plus one or two of the original E lenses, if appropriate. (I have not bothered with any of the bulky FE lenses; they seem to be state of the art quality, but they don't offer any advantages over SL/M glass in bulk.) The A7rII shooting experience is less engaging than the SL (everything just works; no need to click around to get different display modes, e.g.), but in the end, the total weight is probably more than the SL+24-90mm, although the SL is only f2.8-4. The other factor is the sensor. The firmware tweaks have improved the SL's performance since the original release, but the A7rII's additional dynamic range does show. The two cameras have different colour palettes. I have not yet got a recipe for decide the conditions under which each prevails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 1, 2016 Share #165 Posted October 1, 2016 I own the 24-90, I'm not a fan of it.. I can admit that I look for different things in lenses then most people do I guess (since I rarely shoot landscapes). Disliking management doesn't mean I hate the products. I'm still the biggest fan of Leica glass. But I'm not one to drink the Kool-Aid. If the product isn't good in my eyes, I'm not gonna rave about it just because I'm a brand whore. I can openly admit that my top 10 favourite lenses are all from Leica. None of the SL or TL lenses make the cut. And yes I've owned/used almost all of what Leica has to offer optically (and for good measure most other lenses from other brands too). And I can also admit that I bought a M camera because it looked cool. But I kept using it/them because I fell in love with the RF experience and M lenses. Probably one of the reasons why I hate the SL (but not the only reason). I also love the S-006 (best sensor ever), hate the S-007. There is a reason why I'm not a fan of the 50SL, and I have had access to more images then what you see on the net. And again to clarify, I probably look for different things in my optics then most of you do (I'm not a brick wall landscape type shooter). I don't call myself a landscape photographer at all, otherwise I might take offence at your last line (along with the majority here that you appear to refer to). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamdewilde Posted October 1, 2016 Share #166 Posted October 1, 2016 I don't call myself a landscape photographer at all, otherwise I might take offence at your last line (along with the majority here that you appear to refer to). My mistake... I meant to write (I'm not a brick wall tester or landscape type shooter). As in, I don't care about things that don't matter to photojournalistic or portrait type shooting. (edited it already) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgktkr Posted October 1, 2016 Share #167 Posted October 1, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I already stated I am not an expert but you pressed me; you are right about shape of out of focus highlights, it seems it is related to geometry of the optical tube containing lens elements. My earlier point was about onion rings, apparently back in 2014 Panasonic demonstrated aspherical lens design free of rings - something you would expect in "best up to date". Simple google search ononion rings turns this... http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/05/02/the-end-of-onion-ring-bokeh-panasonic-beats-the-curse-of-aspheric-lenses Thank you Mladen for the link. It is a good introduction to onion ring bokeh. If I understand the concept correctly, the following link shows lack of onion ring bokeh for the Summilux-M Asph 50mm f/1.4. http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2014/10/bokeh-kings/ Also, David Farkas' image made with the 50mm Summilux SL showed no onion ring bokeh (at least none that I could see) http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2016/09/photokina-2016-day-1-checking-out-the-50mm-summilux-sl-asph-and-multifunction-handgrip/ dgktkr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 1, 2016 Share #168 Posted October 1, 2016 As someone once writ, "methinks she doth protest too much!" Leica makes cameras and lenses, some big, some small. It has a marketing department which says things in such a way as to catch the attention of potential buyers. You don't need to feel betrayed because Leica releases a lens you either don't like or won't use - particularly as it hasn't even been released yet. If you haven't drunk the koolaid, why is the release of a lens (not available yet) resulting in such condemnation, and why are you posting here? Looks like maybe some here really do care. Again, we have complaints about corrections for a lens that can only be used on the SL - for the purposes of actually taking pictures, who give a toss? Corrections will be made in the lens, in their camera or in your computer (remember the "flat" images from the Monochrom version 1? Till those who had the camera pointed out that actually this was a good thing?). Thighslapper is right, you know. The 50 Summilux-SL will join the 24-90 & 90-280 as a crap lens fore some experts here. The rest of us will just get on with taking pictures with them that give us tremendous pleasure. 9 pages, and no one has the final lens in their hands; and the lens is already dead and buried for not being an M lens ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted October 1, 2016 Share #169 Posted October 1, 2016 So you are giving complement to Panasonic designed 90-280 lens? Should that credit be given to Panasonic? Again, nobody really say anything about 50lux SL yet other than point out its size, mechanic clip of bokeh highlight and onion ring, maybe in camera correction etc... But those are all base on the information a few image shown so far. At least that is some useful facts. The problem I have mainly is company cultural wise, I personally don't like BS talk before anything real show. And a bunch of cheerleaders exciting about everything without even see any meat yet. It is not the Leica I am farmilar with. At least not again and again, S, T, x-vario etc...It is not lady's purse business. Fashion in and fashion out (thinking about S). That feeling sucks. As far as I am aware Leica designed and made the 90-280. Panasonic have a patent on the dual AF system used in it. I have to say this thread is stuck in a very large rut arguing about almost nothing. I am off until my 50/1.4 arrives ...... I suspect a few will trickle through before xmas. If it turns out to be a large lump of crap as predicted by the supremely knowledgeable and clairvoyants here I will let you know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted October 1, 2016 Share #170 Posted October 1, 2016 I am off until my 50/1.4 arrives ...... I suspect a few will trickle through before xmas. Yes, a few from the dry run, which may be good or bad, depending on how Leica rolls. Either they will look at the dry run lenses very carefully, or the production run lenses will have all the dry run bugs fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted October 1, 2016 Share #171 Posted October 1, 2016 There is a reason why I'm not a fan of the 50SL, ... d again to clarify, I probably look for different things in my optic. Indulge us with some elaboration on what the 50SL is lacking that you are looking for Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 1, 2016 Share #172 Posted October 1, 2016 I have my order in for a 50 SL lux. A 50 is a vital lens for me but I know that it doesn't need to be "perfect". Personally I prefer a balanced lens to a completely clinical one. At the same time, I like the idea of an Otus but don't want to play with manually focusing it. I also bought into the SL system knowing that it would be bigger than other mirrorless systems, although with Sony's larger lenses that hasn't actually happened. I'll accept the software corrections. I admit, I was totally against them. But the reality is I don't think I can see the "loss of image quality" that software corrections are supposed to bring. And I've found in my own shooting I almost always apply a lens profile in Lightroom. There may indeed be some IQ loss but, for me, it's more than compensated for with the benefits that a good profile brings. I've also bought lenses that "the internet" said were great and been disappointed. And cheap Voigtlanders I prefer to their Leica equivalents. So I know that whether I like this lens will be totally independent of what other think. To know whether I'll like it I'll just have to try it for myself. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 1, 2016 Share #173 Posted October 1, 2016 Thank you Mladen for the link. It is a good introduction to onion ring bokeh. If I understand the concept correctly, the following link shows lack of onion ring bokeh for the Summilux-M Asph 50mm f/1.4. http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2014/10/bokeh-kings/ Also, David Farkas' image made with the 50mm Summilux SL showed no onion ring bokeh (at least none that I could see) http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2016/09/photokina-2016-day-1-checking-out-the-50mm-summilux-sl-asph-and-multifunction-handgrip/ dgktkr Your second link, pictures from Photokina, check image #11, guy holding a camera, look at out of focus blob behind him on his right, onion rings are very clear - I am viewing it on iPad Air with Retina display. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted October 1, 2016 Share #174 Posted October 1, 2016 Here's a comparison between the zoom and the new prime http://www.fotointern.ch/archiv/2016/09/26/was-das-leica-summilux-sl-11450mm-und-ein-ferrari-gemeinsam-haben-koennten/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 1, 2016 Share #175 Posted October 1, 2016 Your second link, pictures from Photokina, check image #11, guy holding a camera, look at out of focus blob behind him on his right, onion rings are very clear - I am viewing it on iPad Air with Retina display. Looked at it in Chrome on my Surface Pro 3, then downloaded it into Photoshop on my 27" wide gamut screen and ........ I can't see any onion rings as shown in the explanatory link you posted earlier. They just look like plain blue ellipses with a few pixellated artifacts - nothing ring like. I can't argue with what you're seeing - but I'll wait till I can see see it before believing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meerec Posted October 1, 2016 Share #176 Posted October 1, 2016 Really? :-) ok time for you to get a better monitor or dump that Surface. Attached is a simple screenshot off my iPad screen. Looked at it in Chrome on my Surface Pro 3, then downloaded it into Photoshop on my 27" wide gamut screen and ........ I can't see any onion rings as shown in the explanatory link you posted earlier. They just look like plain blue ellipses with a few pixellated artifacts - nothing ring like. I can't argue with what you're seeing - but I'll wait till I can see see it before believing. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/253063-summilux-sl-50-mm-f14-asph/?do=findComment&comment=3122093'>More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 1, 2016 Share #177 Posted October 1, 2016 I think I will hold off judgment until I see a raw image - a screenshot, taken from a web upload, taken from ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgktkr Posted October 2, 2016 Share #178 Posted October 2, 2016 Your second link, pictures from Photokina, check image #11, guy holding a camera, look at out of focus blob behind him on his right, onion rings are very clear - I am viewing it on iPad Air with Retina display. Really? :-) ok time for you to get a better monitor or dump that Surface. Attached is a simple screenshot off my iPad screen. @mladen: If I download image #11 from http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2016/09/photokina-2016-day-1-checking-out-the-50mm-summilux-sl-asph-and-multifunction-handgrip/ (with the label L1040024-1-768x1152.jpg) and look at it with Lightroom or Iridient Developer at 100% magnification and normal contrast, I notice a bit of structure in the upper light blue blob along the upper edge. Other than that I wouldn't say the onions rings are very clear. It doesn't bother me. I find such an anomaly easy to ignore. It doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the image. My display is an old Apple Cinema Display (1680 X 1050) @meerec: I'm kind of curious why I don't see the onion rings clearly when I download the image. I'm attaching a screen capture of a download and 100% crop of http://www.reddotforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/L1040024-1.jpg. No processing. The blobs aren't as large and the onion rings aren't as distinct as in your png. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! dgktkr Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! dgktkr ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/253063-summilux-sl-50-mm-f14-asph/?do=findComment&comment=3122105'>More sharing options...
dgktkr Posted October 2, 2016 Share #179 Posted October 2, 2016 On the web page linked by jrp there is another portrait made with the Summilux-SL 50 MM F/1.4 ASPH and it also has some out of focus highlights. http://www.fotointern.ch/wp-uploads/2016/09/Leica-Bild02-Ursula-1.4_50-1.4.jpg Here is a 100% crop from a screen capture: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! In the two highlights that are about half way up I can see two darker spots with ripples around them that are at 10:30 and 12 o'clock about 2/3 of the way from the center to the edge. I also see a rim that is lighter than the adjacent inner area, but that could very easily be sharpening applied during construction of the jpg. I wonder if the two dots are just some particles of dust on one of the elements of the lens. Is there onion ring bokeh in this image? dgktkr Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! In the two highlights that are about half way up I can see two darker spots with ripples around them that are at 10:30 and 12 o'clock about 2/3 of the way from the center to the edge. I also see a rim that is lighter than the adjacent inner area, but that could very easily be sharpening applied during construction of the jpg. I wonder if the two dots are just some particles of dust on one of the elements of the lens. Is there onion ring bokeh in this image? dgktkr ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/253063-summilux-sl-50-mm-f14-asph/?do=findComment&comment=3122139'>More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted October 2, 2016 Share #180 Posted October 2, 2016 The blue one are definitely onion ring. I bet if you focus at closer distance such as MFD, and light source further away to make the bokeh ball big you will see it easily. It looks very similar to 100cron S. To be fare. I will not say that this onion ring will be a deal break for any lens purchase decision. It would be nice to not have it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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